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Path: ...!news.nobody.at!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Latest Neanderthal genome sequence Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 17:09:24 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 38 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <vbt4ek$3r28t$1@dont-email.me> Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="28849"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:nSzbW4ZWBbrBoQlNTFknkMwdz7U= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 1D80422986F; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:09:18 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA6C222978C for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:09:15 -0400 (EDT) id 619A5872AC; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay.zaccari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33D977FCB8 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:09:28 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mod-relay.zaccari.net 33D977FCB8 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D25685F840 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 22:09:25 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/D25685F840; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id 62A11DC01A9; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 00:09:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2024 00:09:25 +0200 (CEST) Content-Language: en-US X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX19FVGWLBGqL8gt52UYf5d/DKA/iqN0lK+M= FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 4671 Open Access https://www.cell.com/cell-genomics/fulltext/S2666-979X(24)00177-0 https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/dna-of-thorin-one-of-the-last-neanderthals-finally-sequenced-revealing-inbreeding-and-50-000-years-of-genetic-isolation They think that this Neanderthal male existed 42,000 years ago. This would make him the most recent find in terms of geologic age. There is some evidence that Neanderthals existed until around 30,000 years ago, but we do not have fossil bones, just their tool set. Like other Neanderthal individuals this one seems to be highly inbred and is the product of close relatives mating. His sequence indicates that his people separated from the other extant Neanderthal lineages around 50,000 years before this individual existed. Somehow this group of Neanderthals remained isolated in their valley for a very long time. They still retained the older Neanderthal tool set while their contemporaries in Western Europe had adopted a new method of making tools. It sort of looks like the population went the way of the Wrangle Island Mammoths and inbreeding depression may have been one of factors involved in their eventual demise. The modern humans that invaded Europe seemed to have a means to limit inbreeding. One sex stayed with the clan and the other left to join other clans. One thing about inbreeding is that it can mess with genetic relationship analysis. Inbreeding causes loss of genetic variation in a population, so you have to try to determine how much different the haplotypes are from the those found in other populations, and try to separate the genetic distance due to loss of variation the population once had, from the variation that accumulated in the haplotypes that they still share with the other populations. I do not know if this was done in this case. Inbreeding sort of unzips a lineage and makes the branch length to that individual look longer than it actually is, but the longer branch length is due to the variation that has been lost, not gained. Ron Okimoto