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From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs...
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2024 12:14:32 +0200
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On 9/13/24 06:49, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Sep 2024 14:43:02 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <vbuneq$8hap$1@dont-email.me>:
> 
>> On 9/12/24 12:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 12/09/2024 10:45, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 05:00:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Artificial muscles propel a robotic leg to walk and jump:
>>>>>    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/09/240909113111.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> quote:
>>>>>    "
>>>>>    The actuators are oil-filled plastic bags, similar to those used to
>>>>>    make ice cubes.
>>>>>    About half of each bag is coated on either side with a black electrode
>>>>>    made of a conductive material.
>>>>>    Buchner explains that "as soon as we apply a voltage to the
>>>>> electrodes,
>>>>>    they are attracted to each other due to static electricity.
>>>>>    ...
>>>>>    "
>>>>> And press the fluid out....
>>>>> So electrostatic actuators!
>>>>
>>>> How does that not violate thermodynamics? You seem to be getting useful
>>>> power from zero energy.
>>>
>>> How do little pieces of paper defy gravity when you put a charged comb
>>> near them? Isn't the energy supplied by rubbing the comb against some
>>> material to give it the charge to attract the paper? Where does the
>>> voltage come from which is applied to the bag electrodes?
>>>
>>> Didn't we discuss something like this not too long ago, or was it in
>>> another NG?
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_motor>
>>>
>>
>> That was right here in s.e.d in July. And no, thermodynamics, or
>> rather conservation of energy is not violated. It never is.
>>
>> I don't think that they can get useful amounts of work out of these
>> things. The Science Daily article is useless, as always, and I did
>> not bother to read the paper.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
> 
> At least they made something that works,
> unlike the trillions spend at CERN that never do anything for anybody.
> I would cancel all funding to CERN if they did not come up with something revolutionary and practical useful in a year.
> He who does not want to see is practically blind.
> 

CERN is about fundamental, not applied, research. It doesn't spend
trillions either. Its annual budget is about 1.2 billion. It provides
the hardware and infrastructure for high energy physics research.
Many thousands of scientists flock together there to use its facilities.

The results of high energy research may have been a bit disappointing
lately. That's the nature of fundamental research. You don't know if
you'll find something immediately useful.

The real purpose of CERN is to gather and keep an active community
of smart minds in Europe. This produces plenty of spin-offs that
eventually contribute to a dynamic and innovative economy. Money
spent by CERN directly benefits thousands of businesses in all of
its member states and beyond. Many start-ups are created by CERN
alumni or by other enterprising individuals who perceive the
opportunities.

Nations apparently still appreciate CERN. The number of member
states is steadily increasing. The current count is 24, but ten
more are still in the pipeline. Even non-member states get to
cooperate in its projects. Japan, the USA, and until recently
Russia have contributed hugely and eagerly. Most nations of the
world have international cooperation agreements with CERN.

CERN also has a teaching function. Young scientists get to learn
the ropes of research. All this in an international environment
where you get to work with people of all nations and cultures.
That in itself is precious.

Jeroen Belleman