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From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Electrostatic actuators to move robots legs...
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2024 21:07:20 +0200
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On 9/13/24 13:57, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 13 Sep 2024 12:14:32 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <vc134d$qf8s$1@dont-email.me>:
> 
>> On 9/13/24 06:49, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Sep 2024 14:43:02 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <vbuneq$8hap$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> On 9/12/24 12:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>> On 12/09/2024 10:45, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 05:00:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Artificial muscles propel a robotic leg to walk and jump:
>>>>>>>     https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/09/240909113111.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> quote:
>>>>>>>     "
>>>>>>>     The actuators are oil-filled plastic bags, similar to those used to
>>>>>>>     make ice cubes.
>>>>>>>     About half of each bag is coated on either side with a black electrode
>>>>>>>     made of a conductive material.
>>>>>>>     Buchner explains that "as soon as we apply a voltage to the
>>>>>>> electrodes,
>>>>>>>     they are attracted to each other due to static electricity.
>>>>>>>     ...
>>>>>>>     "
>>>>>>> And press the fluid out....
>>>>>>> So electrostatic actuators!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How does that not violate thermodynamics? You seem to be getting useful
>>>>>> power from zero energy.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do little pieces of paper defy gravity when you put a charged comb
>>>>> near them? Isn't the energy supplied by rubbing the comb against some
>>>>> material to give it the charge to attract the paper? Where does the
>>>>> voltage come from which is applied to the bag electrodes?
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't we discuss something like this not too long ago, or was it in
>>>>> another NG?
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_motor>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was right here in s.e.d in July. And no, thermodynamics, or
>>>> rather conservation of energy is not violated. It never is.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that they can get useful amounts of work out of these
>>>> things. The Science Daily article is useless, as always, and I did
>>>> not bother to read the paper.
>>>>
>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>
>>> At least they made something that works,
>>> unlike the trillions spend at CERN that never do anything for anybody.
>>> I would cancel all funding to CERN if they did not come up with something revolutionary and practical useful in a year.
>>> He who does not want to see is practically blind.
>>>
>>
>> CERN is about fundamental, not applied, research. It doesn't spend
>> trillions either. Its annual budget is about 1.2 billion.
> 
> How many would that feed?
> 
> 
> It uses so much power and produces so much CO2 that the glowball temperature now almost reaches the melting point of lead...
> At the same time farmers here have their farms killed because they, who FEED the masses, produce a little bit of CO2.
>   
> 
>> It provides
>> the hardware and infrastructure for high energy physics research.
> 
> Mostly bomb shelter tunnels for the WW3 US and UK is steering towards
> 
> 
>> Many thousands of scientists flock together there to use its facilities.
> 
> Ant heaps
> 
>> The results of high energy research may have been a bit disappointing
>> lately. That's the nature of fundamental research. You don't know if
>> you'll find something immediately useful.
>>
>> The real purpose of CERN is to gather and keep an active community
>> of smart minds in Europe.
> 
> Job creation for Albert Onestone parrots
> 
> 
> <This produces plenty of spin-offs that
>> eventually contribute to a dynamic and innovative economy. Money
>> spent by CERN directly benefits thousands of businesses in all of
>> its member states and beyond. Many start-ups are created by CERN
>> alumni or by other enterprising individuals who perceive the
>> opportunities.
>>
>> Nations apparently still appreciate CERN. The number of member
>> states is steadily increasing. The current count is 24, but ten
>> more are still in the pipeline. Even non-member states get to
>> cooperate in its projects. Japan, the USA, and until recently
>> Russia have contributed hugely and eagerly. Most nations of the
>> world have international cooperation agreements with CERN.
>>
>> CERN also has a teaching function. Young scientists get to learn
>> the ropes of research.
> 
> Brainwash
> 
> I wrote this before:
>   nature is simple,
>   in the shoot 2 Teslas at each other at supersonic speed experiment at the ZERN racetrack
>   2 new elementary particles were discovered, the 'Nut' and 'Bolt'.
>   Further investigation by mamaticians did show chirality in Bolts
>   It was found there are more right-hand screwed ? Bolts than left hand
>   so the whole universe must be mainly right-hand bolted together.
> 
> 
>> All this in an international environment
> 
> Politics
> 
> 
>> where you get to work with people of all nations and cultures.
>> That in itself is precious.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
> 
> I have travelled the world and did just that.
> Worked at a large accelerator too.
> You hd soem allowence to spend some time on your own projects
> that made me learn and design a few things I liked that actually worked.
> That is a positive thing
> Thas the whole place got radioactive contaminated a year or so after I left was alread predicted by me years earlier.
> Wil CERN blow up earth creating the wrong particle?
> Some time ago there was a fuss about that.
> Very possible.
> They discovered an FTL particle too, was it you who swapped the coaxas?
> Most fishisicks there have no clue about even the equipment they are using.
> 

I wasn't involved in that. The neutrinos came from the CNGS
installation, a target in a beam line tangent to the SPS and
sloping downwards into the earth, aimed at Gran Sasso in Italy.
I recall the physicists were greatly embarrased by the precipitous
publication of these obviously faulty results.

Jeroen Belleman