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From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: another hint of quantum consciousness
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2024 15:41:38 +1000
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On 15/09/2024 12:18 pm, john larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 21:28:44 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
> 
>> On 9/14/24 21:02, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 14:38:14 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 10:33:37 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 13:03:07 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 08:13:10 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://scitechdaily.com/groundbreaking-study-affirms-quantum-basis-for-consciousness-a-paradigm-shift-in-understanding-human-nature/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting way to define consciousness, the thing that goes away when
>>>>>>> an a general anesthetic is applied. That can be quantified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't get too fired up.  The researchers are undergrads, and the
>>>>>> bit about microtubles originally came from Penrose, back before the
>>>>>> Neurocomputation field had found plausible mechanisms in vector
>>>>>> algebra over hyperdimensional parameter spaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> Undergrads and amateurs often shake up scientific dogma.
>>>>
>>>> Uncommon, but certainly not unheard of.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Given that microtubules are very widely employed in all cells for all
>>>>>> manner of purposes, blocking microtubules does not imply that quantum
>>>>>> mechanics are or are not involved, as blocking anything that
>>>>>> fundamental is likely to affect very many things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Evolution seems to use anything that works, even if scientists
>>>>> disapprove.
>>>>
>>>> True, but unhelpful.  It's not enough to observe that if A is blocked,
>>>> B stops working, and therefore the mechanism is X.  There are many
>>>> mechanisms simultaneously in action.  One must methodically rule out
>>>> all but a single X to claim causality.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>
>>> I didn't claim causality, but it is possible.
>>>
>>> Discoveries usually happen through accident and speculation. Slapping
>>> down speculation leaves only accident, which is unlikely in this case.
>>>
>>> Designing electronics also benefits from being friendly to new ideas.
>>>
>>
>> Discoveries happen by diddling with the problem, trying out different
>> things to see what happens. Once you have a collection of observations,
>> some theory will form of how it all fits together. You test the theory
>> by doing more experiments. If these experiments keep confirming your
>> theory, then, and only then, can you claim to have discovered something.
>>
>> Just throwing harebrained ideas around leads nowhere.
> 
> Certainly rejecting ideas leads nowhere.
> 
> Who gets to define "harebrained" ideas? Should they be made illegal?
> 
> Google "quantum biology" which was once agreed to be
> impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_biology

Nobody ever seems to have "agreed that it was impossible". The slightly 
bizarre compounds where it happens mean that it happens inside single 
molecules - albeit fairly large ones.

Having it happen along an axon is an extravagant stretch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axon

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney