Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Rebutting the Sipser Halting Problem Proof --- H emulating H
 emulating D
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 22:13:33 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 130
Message-ID: <vcas4u$3aj8h$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vc6qlc$275or$1@dont-email.me> <vc94bp$2q9hl$1@dont-email.me>
 <vc975i$2qm11$3@dont-email.me> <vc9c9j$2s39m$1@dont-email.me>
 <vc9kjv$2u9le$1@dont-email.me>
 <9276524b25318414fa2ad3eb24a0834d55038436@i2pn2.org>
 <vcae5l$33ujk$1@dont-email.me>
 <e5348ffffd9045bd4eae17aac787543d94107249@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 05:13:34 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2e8541e23cb4beabf59212eec01bab97";
	logging-data="3493137"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19b5icfhvYJk7WC78RHkX/u"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QhzGQgybv3PsvjEfozPf9Sm8q8o=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <e5348ffffd9045bd4eae17aac787543d94107249@i2pn2.org>
Bytes: 6622

On 9/16/2024 9:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 9/16/24 7:15 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 9/16/2024 5:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 9/16/24 11:58 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 9/16/2024 8:36 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 16.sep.2024 om 14:09 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 9/16/2024 6:21 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 15.sep.2024 om 16:23 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rebutting the Sipser Halting Problem Proof
>>>>>>>> D(D) correctly reports its own halt status
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/ 
>>>>>>>> publication/364302709_Rebutting_the_Sipser_Halting_Problem_Proof
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We can see that the first seven instructions of D emulated by H 
>>>>>>>> precisely match the first seven instructions of the x86 source- 
>>>>>>>> code of D. This conclusively proves that these instructions were 
>>>>>>>> emulated correctly. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes H makes a good start, but fails to complete the simulation, 
>>>>>>> because of a bug in the code to recognise an infinite 'recursion'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then if you are not a damned liar you can see this
>>>>>> next part that you dishonestly erased.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> D()
>>>>>> [0000218e] 55             push ebp         ; begin D
>>>>>> [0000218f] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>>>> [00002191] 8b4508         mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>>>>> [00002194] 50             push eax         ; push param
>>>>>> [00002195] 8b4d08         mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>>>>> [00002198] 51             push ecx         ; push param
>>>>>> [00002199] e8a0f2ffff     call 0000143e    ; call H
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After D calls H(D,  D) we can see that H correctly emulates itself 
>>>>>> emulating D because again we see that the first seven instructions 
>>>>>> of D emulated by the emulated H precisely match the first seven 
>>>>>> instructions of the x86 source-code of D. This conclusively proves 
>>>>>> that these instructions were emulated correctly.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, nobody denies that H made a good start, but it failed with the 
>>>>> seventh instruction, where it did not correctly simulate the call 
>>>>> instruction, which should be followed by the simulation of 
>>>>> instructions within H. 
>>>>
>>>> Examining emulations of emulations is very confusing
>>>> in the 260 page execution trace. Here it is:
>>>>
>>>> first line of H [0000143e]
>>>> page  38 executed H
>>>> page  48 emulated H
>>>> page 249 emulated emulated H
>>>>
>>>> first line of D [0000218e]
>>>> page  38 executed D
>>>> page  41 emulated D
>>>> page 132 emulated emulated D
>>>>
>>>> We can tell that a line is emulated when it is
>>>> preceded by: "call 000007be" call _DebugStep()
>>>>
>>>> https://www.liarparadox.org/D(D)_Sipser_Full.pdf
>>>>
>>>> page 38 executed D invokes executed H
>>>> [000021be][00103868][00000000] 55 push ebp
>>>> [000021bf][00103868][00000000] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021c1][00103864][0000218e] 688e210000 push 0000218e
>>>> [000021c6][00103860][000021cb] e8c3ffffff call 0000218e
>>>> [0000218e][0010385c][00103868] 55 push ebp
>>>> [0000218f][0010385c][00103868] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>>> [00002191][0010385c][00103868] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>>> [00002194][00103858][0000218e] 50 push eax
>>>> [00002195][00103858][0000218e] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>>> [00002198][00103854][0000218e] 51 push ecx
>>>> [00002199][00103850][0000219e] e8a0f2ffff call 0000143e
>>>>
>>>> page 40-41 executed H is calling the emulator to emulate D
>>>> [00001208][001037dc][00103894] e8b1f5ffff call 000007be
>>>> [0000218e][00113900][00113904] 55 push ebp
>>>>
>>>> page 48 executed H is calling the emulator to emulate H
>>>> [00001208][001037dc][00103894] e8b1f5ffff call 000007be
>>>> [00002199][001138f4][0000219e] e8a0f2ffff call 0000143e
>>>>
>>>> page 132 emulated H is calling the emulator to emulate D
>>>> [00001208][001037dc][00103894] e8b1f5ffff call 000007be
>>>> [00001208][00113880][0014e2bc] e8b1f5ffff call 000007be
>>>> [0000218e][0015e328][0015e32c] 55 push ebp
>>>>
>>>> page 249 emulated H is calling the emulator to emulate H
>>>> [00001208][001037dc][00103894] e8b1f5ffff call 000007be
>>>> [00001208][00113880][0014e2bc] e8b1f5ffff call 000007be
>>>> [00002199][0015e31c][0000219e] e8a0f2ffff call 0000143e
>>>>
>>>
>>> So?
>>>
>>> That just shows you have worked out a way to LIE about what happens.
>>>
>>> The results of a emulated call to debug step are NOT correctly part 
>>> of the emulation of D. 
>>
>> DebugStep() calls the libx86emu library you freaking doofus.
>> When D calls H(D,D) H mus emulate itself emulating D you
>> freaking doofus.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> So?
> 
> That just proves that you have lied that you have done an actual x86 
> emulation of the input, as, that means that *ALL* instructions need to 
> be shown as to the actual steps the x86 does to exectute it.
> 
> There is not x86 instruction "DebugStep" so that isn't an x86 operation, 
> just a call instruction.
> 

x86utm is a multi-taking operating system that requires
operating system functions knucklehead.




-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer