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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written Subject: Re: Whoops! The Atlantic Makes Trump Look EPIC In Cover Intended as a Smear Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:03:22 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 173 Message-ID: <vci73c$o1qv$1@dont-email.me> References: <20240913a@crcomp.net> <cicbejl8f1hppk447ao6jq1n295sj386f1@4ax.com> <pcgeejhh5j013bn1iqo15i5cod7267j15j@4ax.com> <20240915a@crcomp.net> <vc8hcj$2m25s$1@dont-email.me> <20240916a@crcomp.net> <92767bb42bc741f813f2a5a131e0ce5e@www.novabbs.com> <vcd5e0$3ognu$3@dont-email.me> <8b0e72a9-cf0c-dd8f-0b07-cdd1136854f3@example.net> <vcfkj6$7u9m$2@dont-email.me> <44ba55b0-9667-f511-e884-e91e2078a4e0@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2024 00:03:25 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="4b562c8a9002078e1a77642d0e760a0e"; logging-data="788319"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+SvPY9OCsk+mMN6vpRG+EG" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.19 Cancel-Lock: sha1:bSzbQkh0KrOd8CG1mlpy8nwJE94= In-Reply-To: <44ba55b0-9667-f511-e884-e91e2078a4e0@example.net> D wrote: > > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2024, William Hyde wrote: > >> D wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 17 Sep 2024, Lynn McGuire wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/17/2024 6:11 PM, quadibloc wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 16:29:18 +0000, Don wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Francis Bacon revealed his dream in _New Atlantis_. He sought to move >>>>>> beyond corporations to supranational scientism. So sciencey specters >>>>>> such as global warming and covid can be controlled by a scientific >>>>>> autocracy along the lines of these guys: >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://vimeo.com/1004265903> >>>>>> >>>>>> Oprah's a disciple of scientism: >>>>>> >>>>>> "And it was miraculous to me that before you can practically >>>>>> finish the requests, the answer has come back to you," >>>>>> >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> "I think we should be disciplined and we should honor it and >>>>>> have a reverence for what is to come and respect, because I >>>>>> think it's going to change in ways that are unimaginable for >>>>>> the good." >>>>>> >>>>>> Far sighted Bacon knew it would take centuries for his vision to come >>>>>> true. Should Trump singlehandedly reverse centuries of sociological >>>>>> ratcheting it'd be enough to make Bacon "sing the blues" as they say. >>>>>> Only the blues didn't exist back in Bacon's day - ergo "Flow My >>>>>> Tears." >>>>> >>>>> Global warming is not an imaginary spectre. The science involved is >>>>> really basic stuff. >>>>> >>>>> And we've seen the consequences of Trump's anti-science mentality in >>>>> all the unnecessary deaths from COVID-19 he caused. >>>>> >>>>> I just saw an article giving more detail on those polls that say >>>>> Kamala Harris is ahead. >>>>> >>>>> 45% of voters favor Trump, 49% of voters favor Harris, a 4% lead. >>>>> >>>>> But if you split things up, and just look at typical Americans, >>>>> you instead get >>>>> >>>>> 55% of voters support Trump; 41% of voters support Harris. >>>>> >>>>> This is disastrous. It means the mainstream regular American >>>>> people, those with the best educational opportunities, aren't >>>>> competent to manage their own affairs any more. If Trump isn't >>>>> elected, it will only be because they had help... >>>>> >>>>> from Americans who can easily be prevented from getting to the >>>>> polls. And several states are trying to do just that. >>>>> >>>>> We don't know yet if the guys in the white hoods will make >>>>> their presence felt on Election Day to help with that. >>>>> >>>>> John Savard >>>> >>>> Any Global Warming is not caused by humans so your basic thesis is >>>> wrong. Climates change all the time. Just about all of it is due to >>>> that big fusion reactor in the sky that is so incredibly inefficient >>>> (1.8%) but works so well with it's 10+ billion years of fuel. >>>> >>>> Lynn >>>> >>> >>> This is the truth! It can be proven easily. Go out during the day, >>> and measure the temperature. Then go out again, when the sun is not >>> shining, and measure the temperature. It will be lower. >>> >>> Reading the modern press, you easily get the idea that the sun does >>> not affect the climate at all, but this is actually wrong, and has >>> been proven by science. >>> >> >> Rarely has so short a posting contained so much ignorance. >> >> >> William Hyde >> > > This is incorrect William. You are concurring with Lynn's claim that global warming is due to the sun. It is not. We do study variations in the sun's output very closely, and such variations do not explain the current warming. This has been known for decades. You are also concurring with Lynn's claim that almost all climate change in the past was due to solar change. We know this not to be the case, in particular with the ice ages. We've known this for decades, suspected it for more than a century. The world has often in the distant past been warmer than it is now. Yet the sun was dimmer. Clearly, other factors also count, even dominate at times. In your first paragraph you confuse climate with weather. That's a mistake. Further, it does sometimes happen that night is warmer than day. Weather's like that. The press does indeed sometimes print stories about solar change. It does not print that many for reasons given in the first paragraph. But ignorance is not stupidity, it can be cured easily enough. Lynn has maintained that he cannot believe in global change because it would be bad for his business. He is probably wrong in this, but it is for this reason that Lynn sees ignorance, or pretended ignorance, as being in his financial interests. That is why I did not respond to Lynn. While politics can attach itself to anything, at heart this is not a political question. Observations show the earth to be warming, and we know why. Unexpected predictions, like Stratospheric cooling, were made in the 1960s and have been shown to be true (this alone contradicts warming by increased solar output, though one ill-informed person on this group cited it as evidence *against* AGW). We have not yet begun to feel the worst effects, but weather events around the world tell us that change is here. As do rigorous statistical studies. What to do about it? Now that is indeed a political question. One might propose doing nothing, just adapting to change. One might propose a severe cut in GHG emissions. One might propose geoengineering. Or some mix of the above. But we'll never make progress on these issues without accepting that the change is here, and worse is on the way. Thirty five years ago, I said technology. It was clear that humans were going to use more and more energy, so that unless our energy sources were cleaned we wouldn't stop below 4XC02. But we didn't put the effort into it that was required. No matter how fast we implement the low carbon technologies we now have or are developing, that alone will not alone save us from a 3C warmer world. I would guess that you and Lynn would be for adaptation - get used to the higher temperatures and more acid ocean, somehow, - or geoengineering. Either of those would probably have a less heavy regulatory framework than emissions cuts and that would fit with your political views. But you won't make progress on either of those areas while wasting time arguing against reality. The more effort you put at that, the more the question of what solutions to adapt will be dominated by other people, and those will not be the solutions you prefer. In part through the use of fossil fuels our ancestors created a society where ordinary people are live in comfort and safety beyond the dreams even of the richest people of earlier days, and have opportunities denied their ancestors for millennia. But many good things have bad side effects and the task of those who received the benefits is to deal with those side effects. That task has fallen to us. It is one thing to fail our descendants because we were wrong. Far worse to fail them because we didn't try. ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========