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Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.in-chemnitz.de!news.swapon.de!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2024 16:58:10 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 29 Message-ID: <vcq0d3$2bl9r$1@dont-email.me> References: <memo.20240913205156.19028s@jgd.cix.co.uk> <vcd3ds$3o6ae$2@dont-email.me> <2935676af968e40e7cad204d40cafdcf@www.novabbs.org> <vcd7pr$3op6a$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2024 22:58:12 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5645eae8204df80f973f25404ee2db0b"; logging-data="2479419"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Zc+eF3e1Iunsg/tzzGBHZcnD9vwZSprQ=" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.0 Cancel-Lock: sha1:8X7eUlgyYrN8aEbY5SDWrjEfuS0= In-Reply-To: <vcd7pr$3op6a$3@dont-email.me> Bytes: 2588 On 9/17/24 8:44 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 23:45:50 +0000, MitchAlsup1 wrote: > >> "the CPUs are simply I/O managers to the Inference Engines and GPUs." > > That particular Wheel of Reincarnation will never turn that way. > > Why? It comes down to RAM. Those addon processors will never have access > to the sheer quantity of RAM that is available to the CPU. And > motherboard-based CPU RAM is upgradeable, as well, whereas addon cards > tend not to offer this option. My guess would be that CPU RAM will decrease in upgradability. More tightly integrated memory facilitates higher bandwidth and lower latency (and lower system power/energy). Integration also facilitates optimizations by guaranteeing certain aspects. As fewer means remain available to improve "value", more expensive and/or less flexible improvements become more attractive. (There are also marketing reasons for integration.) The rate at which memory density increases also seems to have declined. This would imply that buying more memory later would be less common. "Direct" access to any memory is not technically impossible. I/O TLBs were perhaps an early step in reducing the distinction between I/O agent and CPU agent. Integrated GPUs and other accelerators also made agents less distinct.