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From: Enrico Papaloma <enrico@papaloma.net>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: home screen icon to connect to wi-fi network
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 17:34:31 +0200
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On 9/23/2024 2:11 PM, Chris wrote:
>> So we can safely assume your unique BSSID & GPS location is already easily
>> accessible by any person who knows how to access that public database.
> 
> And exactly who can access this "public" database?

Everyone. Anywhere. Anytime. 

They know everywhere you go, even if you dig a tunnel and emerge on the
other side of the border, your phone screams out your unique BSSID &
exactly where you live if you leave the phone & router at the defaults.

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/1725632
https://www.osintcurio.us/2019/01/15/tracking-all-the-wifi-things/
https://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2013/posters/Muhammad_Naveed.pdf

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to help you, it's too much for me to
teach networking in a thread if you don't bother to look anything up 1st.
https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/geolocation/requests-geolocation

Before you respond, may I ask you to just google what happened only a few
months ago with the Apple database - where it found to be completely open.

Tens, hundreds, and thousands of unique BSSID/GPS locations are handed out
by the Apple database without anyone even needing any credentials at all.

https://cybernews.com/privacy/apple-beams-wifi-location-data-privacy-risk/
https://www.darkreading.com/endpoint-security/apple-geolocation-api-exposes-wi-fi-access-points-worldwide
https://www.techzine.eu/blogs/security/122122/how-apples-location-api-gives-away-wi-fi-network-data-worldwide/

The Google database used to be wide open to everyone, and then they added a
free tracking key, which is still wide open but you have to register first.

https://usa.kaspersky.com/blog/wps-router-geolocation/30283/
https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/researchers-probe-googles-geolocation-database/
https://dev.to/higordiego/discover-how-google-can-locate-your-residence-just-through-your-wi-fi-router-250m
 
> People can also see my house on google maps or see my address in the phone
> book. Certain officials can also get my name and address for official
> reasons, like electioneering. 

As much as I'd like to teach you basic networking over the Internet, you
have to look some things up before you make claims for me to then debunk.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/android-map-reveals-router-location_n_853214
https://www.techzine.eu/news/security/54130/malware-uses-wifi-bssid-to-identify-victims/
https://www.darkreading.com/endpoint-security/apple-geolocation-api-exposes-wi-fi-access-points-worldwide

>> And, we can just as safely assume that my unique BSSID is NOT in that db.
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. How would you even know?

Again, I'd love to teach you basic networking but my fee is $200 an hour.

It's published how to access the public BSSID/GPS databases if you look.
https://github.com/GONZOsint/geowifi

There isn't anything I've explained which isn't all over the Internet since
it's just basic networking that I'm trying to help you better understand.

https://www.darkreading.com/cyber-risk/google-wardriving-how-engineering-trumped-privacy
https://blog.ouseful.info/2016/01/27/looking-up-the-physical-location-of-your-wifi-router/
https://www.howtogeek.com/788837/your-wi-fi-info-is-in-google-and-microsofts-databases-should-you-care/

> Regardless, neither your house nor your address is secret information. 

I'm trying to help you understand that your phone screams out not only your
unique BSSID but the GPS location of that home WAP, everywhere you go, even
if you travel to Ankara hiding under an overcoat, umbrella and fedora.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/apr/25/google-router-map-exposed
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/05/why-your-wi-fi-router-doubles-as-an-apple-airtag/
https://blog.gl-inet.com/preventive-actions-to-safeguard-glinet-users-from-bssid-based-location-tracking/

>> Do we agree on that as a basic starting point.
>> a. Your unique BSSID is in the public database as is your GPS location.
>> b. Mine is not.
>> 
>> That's just a basic starting point, but do we at least agree on that yet?
> 
> Possibly, but you've completely missed my point. Your BSSID doesn't
> intrinsically identify you and given any broadcast includes all WAPs it's
> impractical/impossible to identify your home (or mine) from a device's
> broadcast. 

As much as I'd like to continue to explain to you the very basics of
networking, you need to click on a few links before saying such things.

https://academic.oup.com/idpl/article/1/3/149/688705
https://www.cs.umd.edu/~dml/papers/wifi-surveillance-sp24.pdf
https://epic.org/googles-location-data-policy-update-why-users-need-more-than-pinkie-promises-to-protect-their-most-sensitive-information/

> At best, all someone can do is say that your device has been seen on this
> network before. They won't be able to say that this device belongs to Arlen
> who lives at 123 Acacia Avenue. A specialist with legal authority and a lot
> more information gathered from elsewhere *might*.

I can't try any harder or more sincerely to explain to you how the basic
networking works on the phone with your home WAP unique BSSID & location.

Maybe you can read some of the cites on the net to get a bit of background?

https://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2013/posters/Muhammad_Naveed.pdf
https://businesslawtoday.org/2019/03/power-place-geolocation-tracking-privacy/
https://community.absolute.com/s/article/Update-Google-Maps-WiFi-Positioning-Database

Of course, none of this happens if you change your phone & router defaults.