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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,us.politics
Subject: Re: kids these days
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:35:52 GMT
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On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:30:48 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <3i9lfj57mhfe657c5mcbd3mmap61q4m1ik@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:35:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Oh. I just hired one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>There is a lot of truth in that article.
>>>>>>>>>>I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing 
>>>>>>>>>>But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
>>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
>>>>>>>>>>One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
>>>>>>>>>>and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
>>>>>>>>>>a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
>>>>>>>>>>with,
>>>>>>>>>>build  proto circuits.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
>>>>>>>>>>and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort
>>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>thing), the works.
>>>>>>>>>>As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
>>>>>>>>>>Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
>>>>>>>>>>I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
>>>>>>>>>>to sync some remote location,
>>>>>>>>>>turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
>>>>>>>>>>Did not they tell you that?
>>>>>>>>>> (Must have missed that :-) ).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It all depends,.
>>>>>>>>>>Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
>>>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
>>>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
>>>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
>>>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes I did read that posting
>>>>>>>>Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
>>>>>>>>to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
>>>>>>>>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
>>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
>>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
>>>>>>>>value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
>>>>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
>>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
>>>>>>>>for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
>>>>>>>>So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
>>>>>>>>An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and
>>>>>>>>resistors.
>>>>>>>>And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
>>>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal, 
>>>>>>>> And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
>>>>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
>>>>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
>>>>>>>>And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
>>>>>>>>but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
>>>>>>>>will change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
>>>>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
>>>>>>>>Those would often go high in teefee sets...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
>>>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
>>>>>>>anyway.
>>>>>>>The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
>>>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
>>>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
>>>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
>>>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first
>>>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
>>>>>>>grads, it seems. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
>>>>>>we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days.
>>>>>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
>>>>>>But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
>>>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
>>>>>>And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
>>>>>>protocols, what not... standarss...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
>>>>>>now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
>>>>>>SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
>>>>>>
>>>>>>US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
>>>>>
>>>>>What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and
>>>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society
>>>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
>>>>
>>>>Look at China
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still
>>>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
>>>>
>>>>I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
>>>>Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
>>>>you pay more taxes..
>>>>Bad system.
>>>>
>>>>As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck.
>>>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
>>>>making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
>>>>
>>>>Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
>>>>Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent.
>>>>
>>>>Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders.
>>>>?
>>>
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
>>
>>Yep, that is the one :-)
>
>Indeed. But for those of us humans without shells, I'm assured hiding
>under a school desk is equally effective for any nuclear blasts up to
>10 megatons.
>
>>
>>
>>>I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme
>>>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
>>
>>Oops.. 
>>Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days?
>
>Yeah, the under 10s are all on Fentanyl and the teenagers have moved
>on to this stuff called 'duster' I gather. I'm told it's 20 times more
>addictive than crack cocaine and Wallmart sells it for $2 a can. Kids
>these days have it all. When I was young, street drugs didn't even
>exist.

Had to look up 'duster'
 https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/air-duster-abuse/air-duster-high/

When I was young, say in the fifties, no drugs here either, was living in Amsterdam back then.
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