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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The actual truth is that ...
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 14:03:01 -0500
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On 10/12/2024 9:43 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 10/12/24 6:17 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 10/12/2024 3:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-11 21:13:18 +0000, joes said:
>>>
>>>> Am Fri, 11 Oct 2024 12:22:50 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 10/11/2024 12:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/24 11:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 9:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/11/24 10:26 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 8:05 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/11/24 8:19 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/11/2024 6:04 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 8:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/24 6:19 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 2:26 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2024-10-10 at 17:05 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:34:34 +0000, Alan Mackenzie said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/24 8:49 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As soon you find out that they repeat the same over and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over, neither correcting their substantial errors nor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improving their arguments you have read enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott deliberately lies (he knows what is told, he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choose to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distort). olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When the behavior of DDD emulated by HHH is the measure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But since it isn't, your whole argument falls apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah a breakthrough.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And an admission that you are just working on a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you are unaware of how valid deductive inference works.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
>>>>>>>>>>> You can disagree that the premise to my reasoning is true.
>>>>>>>>>>> By changing my premise as the basis of your rebuttal you commit
>>>>>>>>>>> the strawman error.
>>>>>>>>>> So, how do you get from the DEFINITION of Halting being a 
>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>> of the actual machine, to something that can be talked about by a
>>>>>>>>>> PARTIAL emulation with a different final behavior.
>>>>>>>>> My whole point in this thread is that it is incorrect for you 
>>>>>>>>> to say
>>>>>>>>> that my reasoning is invalid on the basis that you do not agree 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> one of my premises.
>>>>>>>> The issue isn't that your premise is "incorrect", but it is 
>>>>>>>> INVALID,
>>>>>>>> as it is based on the redefinition of fundamental words.
>>>>>>> Premises cannot be invalid.
>>>>>> Of course they can be invalid,
>>
>> It is a type mismatch error.
>> Premises cannot be invalid.
>>
> 
> So "af;kldsanflksadhtfawieohfnapio" is a valid premise?
> 
> 
>>>>> *It is a verified fact that you are clueless about this*
>>>>> It is important to stress that the premises of an argument do not
>>>>> have actually to be true in order for the argument to be valid.
>>>>> https://iep.utm.edu/val-snd/
>>
>>>> That doesn't make the conclusion true.
>>>
>>> But it does tell that if the conclusion is false then at least one
>>> of the premises is false, too.
>>>
>>
>> It might not be that a premise is false either, it may only
>> seem false from a certain "received view" point of view.
> 
> No, your premise can NEVER be valid, because it is based on
> 
>>
>> Software engineering looks at things differently than the
>> theory of computation.
> 
> Not on this point.
> 
>>
>> void DDD()
>> {
>>    HHH(DDD);
>>    return;
>> }
>>
>> When HHH is an x86 emulation based termination analyzer
>> then each DDD emulated by any HHH that it calls never returns.
> 
> Nope, Even software Engineering treats the funciton HHH as part of the 
> program DDD, and termination analysis as looking at properties of the 
> whole program, not a partial emulation of it.

So if we ask the exact question can DDD emulated by any
HHH reach its own return statement they would answer the
counter-factual yes?

Two guys with masters degrees in computer science do not agree.
That seems to indicate that your EE degrees provide somewhat of
a deficient basis for software engineering.

Mike seems to be the only one here that is not deficient in
actual software engineering.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer