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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: I am claiming that these exact words are necessarily true
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2024 14:17:45 -0500
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On 10/13/2024 1:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 10/13/24 10:03 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 10/13/2024 8:29 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 10/13/24 9:17 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 10/13/2024 8:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 10/13/24 8:40 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> I am not and never have been claiming anything
>>>>>> about incorrect paraphrases of these exact words:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *HHH rejects DDD as non terminating*
>>>>>
>>>>> Which judst makes HHH wrong, since DDD will terminate, since that 
>>>>> term applies to the PROGRAM that the input represents., and if HHH 
>>>>> rejects it, it returns to its caller, and thus DDD will halt.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When HHH is an x86 emulation based termination analyzer
>>>>>> then each DDD emulated by any HHH that it calls never returns.
>>>>>
>>>>> The emulation of DDD by HHH never reaches a final state, but it HHH 
>>>>> aborts its emulation and return 0, then the PROGRAM DDD will return.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rebutting an incorrect paraphrase of my exact words
>>>> <is> the strawman deception.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each of the directly executed HHH emulator/analyzers that returns
>>>>>> 0 correctly reports the above non-terminating behavior of its input.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, since termination is a property of the PROGRAM, and not a 
>>>>> partial emuation of it, you answer is proven wrong, and you are 
>>>>> guilty of using unsound logic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rebutting an incorrect paraphrase of my exact words
>>>> <is> the strawman deception.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But I rebuted your exact words. 
>>
>> That statement is counter-factual.
> 
> 
> No, your statement is just a blantent lie.
> 
> Where did you refute what I said, or are you claiming I didn't say 
> anything?
> 
> You are just proving you are nothing but an out and out liar.
>>
>> I specifically refer to whether or not a specific C function
>> (source-code provided) reaches its own "return" instruction.
> 
> Right, and such behavior is only defined with the definition of every 
> thing that function calls.
> 

Finally you said something that is correct.

>>
>> This <is> the correct measure for the termination analysis
>> of C functions.
> 
> Right, but it included the ACTUAL behavior of the HHH that DDD calls.
> 

Yes you are correct again.

>>
>> Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
>> https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf
>> Figure 5.3: Non-Terminating C Function
> 
> Right, which looks at code that doesn't actually return, because it gets 
> stuck in an actual infinte loop.
> 


The point here is that termination analysis does
not only refer to complete programs as you said

 >>>>> No, since termination is a property of the PROGRAM

it also applies to C functions proving that you were
wrong about this.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer