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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: A state transition diagram proves ... GOOD PROGRESS
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2024 18:48:07 -0500
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On 10/18/2024 6:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 10/18/24 10:10 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 10/18/2024 6:17 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 10/17/24 11:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 10/17/2024 10:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 10/17/24 9:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/17/2024 8:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/17/24 7:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When DDD is correctly emulated by HHH according
>>>>>>>> to the semantics of the x86 language DDD cannot
>>>>>>>> possibly reach its own machine address [00002183]
>>>>>>>> no matter what HHH does.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +-->[00002172]-->[00002173]-->[00002175]-->[0000217a]--+
>>>>>>>> +------------------------------------------------------+
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That may not line up that same way when view
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_diagram
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Except that 0000217a doesn't go to 00002172, but to 000015d2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IS THIS OVER YOUR HEAD?
>>>>>> What is the first machine address of DDD that HHH
>>>>>> emulating itself emulating DDD would reach?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, HHH EMULATES the code at that address, 
>>>>
>>>> Which HHH emulates what code at which address?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone, just once, which you should know, but ignore.
>>>
>>> The Emulating HHH sees those addresses at its begining and then never 
>>> again.
>>>
>>> Then the HHH that it is emulating will see those addresses, but not 
>>> the outer one that is doing that emulation of HHH.
>>>
>>> Then the HHH that the second HHH is emulating will, but neither of 
>>> the outer 2 HHH.
>>>
>>> And so on.
>>>
>>> Which HHH do you think EVER gets back to 00002172?
>>>
>>> What instruction do you think that it emulates that would tell it to 
>>> do so?
>>>
>>> It isn't the call instruction at 0000217a, as that tells it to go 
>>> into HHH.
>>>
>>> At best the trace is:
>>>
>>> 00002172
>>> 00002173
>>> 00002175
>>> 0000217a
>>> conditional emulation of 00002172
>>> conditional emulation of 00002173
>>> conditional emulation of 00002175
>>> conditional emulation of 0000217a
>>> CE of CE of 00002172
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>> OK great this is finally good progress.
>>
>>> The "state" never repeats, it is alway a new state, 
>>
>> Every emulated DDD has an identical process state at every point
>> in its emulation trace when adjusting for different top of stack values.
> 
> 
> Nope, remember, each of those levels are CONDITIONAL, 

We didn't even get there yet.
We are only answering the question can any DDD emulated by any
HHH according to the semantics of the x86 language reach its
own machine address [00002183] no matter what HHH does.

You always leap past this point as if you are a maniac on meth.



-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer