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From: Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: The Shapiro's experiment HOAX. A 1968 TIME article.
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 09:35:12 +0200
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On 2024-10-18 19:40:13 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 17:58:47 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> Moreover, Shapiro's paper is titled
>>> FOURTH TEST OF GENERAL RELATIVITY: --PRELIMINARY RESULTS-- [Emph. JJL]
>>> 
>>> For Shipiro the results were at the edge of what was technically
>>> possible to detect, -at the time-.
>>> Nowadays taking Shapiro delay has to be incorporated
>>> into space probe tracking and orbit determination.
>>> Nutters worry about popular reports of the original experiment,
>>> while the results themselves are standard everyday engineering.
>>> 
>>> Hint for RH:
>>> All interplanetry spacecraft are equipped with transponders.
>>> These devices respond to an incoming radio pulse by responding
>>> with a reply pulse, with a known delay.
>>> The replies are of course detected routinely,
>>> and measured delays are used for orbit calculation and navigation.
>> 
>> THE ABOVE COMMENT SUITS BETTER COMING FROM A KNOW-IT-ALL CHARLATAN.
>> YOU ARE SO WRONG AND MISINFORMED THAT MAKES ME CRY.
> 
> Please do, you will be in need of lots of crying.
> 
> [snip ALL CAPS]

Yes. It seems that rhertz has learned from Donald J. Trump that putting 
stuff in ALL CAPS will make readers take it more seriously. It has the 
opposite effect on me: I just skip over sections in ALL CAPS without 
reading them.
> 
>>> Final hint: The Parker near solar probe for example
>>> would be hopelessly lost if Shapiro delay on its signals
>>> wouldn't be taken into account correctly.
>>> While you whine about it the mission engineers who fly the thing
>>> routinely take it into account without even giving it another thought,
>>> 
>>> Jan
> [snip more ALL CAPS]
> 
>> THE USE OF TRANSPONDERS HAS BEEN OF COMMON USE IN SPACECRAFTS, ROCKETS,
>> DEEP SPACE SONDES, ETC., SINCE THE SPAGE AGE COMMENCED, AND IS UNRELATED
>> TO SHAPIRO'S DELAY. IT'S A MATTER OF COMMON SENSE IN RADIO ENGINEERING.
> 
> Not really, the first sats didn't have one.
> The point is that having transponders in interplanetary probes
> reduces the uncertainty in positions of all bodies
> at least a thousandfold, to typically hundreds of meters.
> So while you are still whining about what may have been wrong
> with the original Shapiro experiment (nothing)
> correctly taking gravitational delays into account
> has long since been a routine engieering matter
> in interplanetary navigation.
> 
> There just is no way to ignore it
> and still arrive at correct orbit predictions,
> 
> Jan


-- 
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly 
in England until 1987.