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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair Subject: Re: Oscillator Distortion Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 11:35:19 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 54 Message-ID: <vf2ptn$cqmo$4@dont-email.me> References: <veguu6$ofj1$3@dont-email.me> <nnd$24f8652c$7e61e07c@2d53e980e4fc2aa6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 13:35:19 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ea5aa129740715bbdef0aba0092d4f4d"; logging-data="420568"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX197MRO+XRT5tpge/t6PMdMjmiKuQ4+2Aqg=" User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba) Cancel-Lock: sha1:R6FP5ihtkWh/88m3hgKDokhAvxc= Bytes: 3140 On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 11:24:06 +0200, albert wrote: > In article <veguu6$ofj1$3@dont-email.me>, > Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote: >>Gentlemen, >> >>Last week I got an old (1968) pulse generator out of mothballs and >>managed to get it fully functional again. However, before replacing the >>case, I (true to form) dropped it on the bench and something on the PCB >>must have shorted out against the metal tools it fell on, because it no >>longer works properly. >>I've found an issue with the principal oscillator. It's generating >>distorted sine waves. It's a wien bridge type using BJTs as the gain >>element and fine tungsten filaments as thermistors, so should produce >>near perfect sine waves before they're chopped and shaped by subsequent >>circuitry, but since the fall, it's not. >> >>Here's the oscillator output: >>https://disk.yandex.com/i/eKAe95xMsiIvNA >> >>I found some weird periodic spikes on the power supply rails in the >>oscillator stage. They are actually present on the rail, not just picked >>up by the ground lead of the scope out of the ether, as I used a short >>ground clip in this instance. I'm not sure if these could cause the >>distortion or not. >>https://disk.yandex.com/i/eKAe95xMsiIvNA >> >>I'm out of ideas. What could cause such distortion if the PS rail isn't >>responsible? > > Not entirely unrelated to this subject. > Image a Wien bridge oscillator, stabilized with a lightbulb. This could > be described with differential equations, including the heating and > cooling of the tungsten wire. > > I suspect a relation between the cooling time constant and the periods > of an oscillator, and the distortion. > A rule could be if you need N periods to have the distance to the the > stable wave halved, you have circa 1/N distortion. > > Is this known territory? >> >>Your pal, >> >>CD. > > Groetjes Albert >> >> You people who explain everything they see in terms of higher mathematics normally leave me baffled. But I believe I've deduced what you're trying to say and it's not an issue in this case. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.