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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: CDC dairy flu Friday update Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 07:15:16 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 98 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <vf2s8j$d9f1$1@dont-email.me> References: <vf0khp$3u55a$1@dont-email.me> Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="76576"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:NttIsjLNkVAJIO1/V/dXzPILnAo= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 0FB61229782; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 08:15:23 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B17229765 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 08:15:20 -0400 (EDT) id E2ECA5DC64; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:15:19 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFE615DC29 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE7965F887 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/DE7965F887; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id 7D102DC01A9; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:15:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:15:16 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <vf0khp$3u55a$1@dont-email.me> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+sqO8qE4uB/S8QgZqQzgLrlQH7TE1UPXw= Content-Language: en-US FREEMAIL_FORGED_REPLYTO,FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED, USER_IN_WELCOMELIST,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 8560 On 10/19/2024 10:51 AM, RonO wrote: > https://www.cdc.gov/bird-flu/spotlights/cdc-bird-flu-response.html > > The CDC is indicating that things are worse than have been cited in the > press in California. Instead of 11 dairy workers infected with the > Dairy influenza the CDC is claiming that they have confirmed 13 human > cases. It sounds like they had confirmed 9 of the cases this week > ending Friday the 18th. They are still down playing the dairy worker > infections, and have not changed their plans of trying to deal with the > next pandemic when it gets started instead of trying to prevent it. You > have to start wondering if California would have even been infected if > the CDC and USDA had started contact tracing and testing dairy herds and > had identified the infected herds early in the epidemic. All the CDC > did was tell the workers to wear protective gear when working with > infected animals, but they refused to identify all the farms with > infected animals so that the workers would know when they should wear > protective gear. > > Two California human cases have been confirmed by viral genomic sequence > to be the B3.13 dairy influenza H5N1 genotype. For some reason they do > not state that the H5 sequences had 2 and 3 amino acid substitutions in > them that could affect H5 antibody binding, but they do state the > negative results that no amino acid changes in the H5 gene were those > that would make the virus more infective in humans (They are looking for > 2 substitutions that facilitate binding to the most common human viral > receptors) and they claim that the virus do not have the mutations that > would make them more resistant to anti viral drugs. In terms of their > strategy to wait until the virus starts the next pandemic by evolving to > be transmitted between humans the fact that their vaccine strategy will > likely not work due to the H5 mutations in the latest human patients is > not stated by them. > > It is just a fact that the more dairy workers infected the more chance > of the virus mutating and being selected to be more infective in a human > host. Instead of attempt to prevent that from happening the CDC decided > to "monitor" the situation and wait for the virus to start being > transmitted in the human population before trying to do something about > it. They stock piled H5 influenza vaccine, but the latest human > infections had mutations in the H5 gene that likely make that vaccine > pretty much worthless. The CDC has admitted that the Missouri mutations > reduced neutralizing ability of the available H5 antibodies and that > they need to create a synthetic H5 genes with the Missouri mutations in > it in order to test for dairy influenza antibodies in the Missouri > patient contacts that showed symptoms. Everyone is still waiting for > those results that would verify human to human transmission if any of > the contacts are positive. > > The CDC just can't seem to admit that they have been wrong, and they are > unwilling to do what California has been doing in tracing contacts and > testing dairy herds. California wasn't even testing the workers, they > were just assuming that they could transmit the virus, and identified > more infected herds than anyone else in such a short period of time, and > in testing workers that showed symptoms they found virus positive > workers that were obviously shedding virus. The USDA and CDC have known > for a very long time that it was likely infected dairy workers that took > the virus to poultry farms. Both Texas and Michigan determined that > dairy workers at infected farms worked at more than one dairy, and some > of them also worked on poultry farms (around 8% of the dairy workers at > known infected farms also worked on poultry farms). They knew that the > virus only was infective off of clothing or skin for less than 30 > minutes. They tried to claim that equipment may have been transferred > from a dairy to the infected poultry farm in Texas because they knew > that it would not have been the humans that took the fictional equipment > (no equipment was ever verified to have been transferred). They also > knew that the infected states that had not gotten infected cattle likely > did get migrant farm workers from infected states. It wasn't rocket > science, but they refused to start testing dairy workers, and perform > contact tracing that would have proven them wrong. > > TO has seen this same refusal to face reality among the IDiots and other > creationists posters before them. Not including the data about the H5 > gene mutations that would affect vaccine efficacy is a common > creationist tactic seen on TO. > > Ron Okimoto https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-10-20/as-bird-flu-outbreaks-rise-piles-of-dead-cows-become-morbid-central-valley-tableau The LA times has some pictures of dead cows and claims that 124 herds and 13 people have been found to be infected with the dairy virus. Apparently the heat may be contributing to mortality, but I haven't seen claims as to exactly what is killing the dairy cows. Previously the worst cases seemed to have gut infections that reduced nutrient uptake and took the cows out of milk production. The virus was nearly always found in milk due to mammary gland infection, and was often not detected as a respiratory infection using nasal swabs. Some how the mortality has gone from around 2% to between 10 and 15% of infected, and carcasses are becoming a disposal issue. In the article they claim that decomposition kills the virus, and it doesn't survive long on skin or fur so the carcasses are not much of a threat for spreading the virus even if scavengers get to the carcass. Ron Okimoto >