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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: What I told ChatGPT is essentially identical to the first page of
 my paper
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2024 18:08:23 -0500
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On 10/21/2024 6:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 10/21/24 6:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 10/21/2024 5:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 10/21/24 12:29 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 10:17 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>> Am Mon, 21 Oct 2024 08:41:11 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>> On 10/21/2024 3:39 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Sun, 20 Oct 2024 17:36:25 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2024 4:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/24 4:23 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2024 2:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/24 1:33 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Note, I DID tell that to Chat GPT, and it agrees that DDD, when 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> criteria is what does DDD actually do, which is what the question
>>>>>>>>> MUST be about to be about the Termination or Halting problem, then
>>>>>>>>> DDD WILL HALT since HHH(DDD) will return 0 to it.
>>>>>>>> No one ever bother to notice that (a) A decider cannot have its 
>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>>> self as its input.
>>>>>>> lolwut? A decider is a normal program, and it should be handled like
>>>>>>> every other input.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (b) In the case of the pathological input DDD to emulating 
>>>>>>>> termination
>>>>>>>> analyzer HHH the behavior of the directly executed DDD (not an 
>>>>>>>> input
>>>>>>>> to HHH) is different than the behavior of DDD that is an input 
>>>>>>>> to HHH.
>>>>>>> DDD *is* the input to HHH.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The executed DDD calls HHH() and this call returns. The emulated 
>>>>>>>> DDD
>>>>>>>> calls HHH(DDD) and this call cannot possibly return.
>>>>>>> But whyyy doesn't HHH abort?
>>>>>> You can click on the link and cut-and-paste the question to see the
>>>>>> whole answer in compete detail.
>>>>> I am not interested in arguing with a chatbot. Make the points 
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. **Nature of `DDD()`**:
>>>>>     - `DDD()` simply calls `HHH(DDD)`. It does not perform any 
>>>>> additional
>>>>> operations that could create a loop or prevent it from returning.
>>>>>     - If `HHH` returns (whether by aborting or completing its 
>>>>> simulation),
>>>>> `DDD()` can return to its caller.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. **Behavior of `HHH`**:
>>>>>     - If `HHH` is able to simulate `DDD()` and return, it should 
>>>>> report
>>>>> that `DDD()` terminates. If `HHH` aborts due to detecting non- 
>>>>> termination,
>>>>> it does not reflect the actual execution of `DDD()`; it leads to a
>>>>> conclusion that may not align with the true behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. **Contradiction in Results**:
>>>>>     - If `HHH` claims that `DDD()` does not halt, but in reality, 
>>>>> `DDD()`
>>>>> can terminate once `HHH` returns, then `HHH` is providing an incorrect
>>>>> analysis.
>>>>>     - The contradiction lies in the ability of `HHH` to detect non-
>>>>> termination theoretically while simultaneously allowing `DDD()` to 
>>>>> halt in
>>>>> practical execution.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### Conclusion:
>>>>> Given the nature of `DDD()` and how `HHH` operates, it becomes 
>>>>> clear that
>>>>> `HHH` cannot consistently provide a correct answer about whether 
>>>>> `DDD()`
>>>>> halts. The dynamics of calling and returning create a scenario 
>>>>> where the
>>>>> outcomes conflict. Thus, `HHH` is fundamentally flawed in its role 
>>>>> as a
>>>>> termination analyzer for functions like `DDD()`.
>>>>
>>>> Did ChatGPT generate that?
>>>> If it did then I need *ALL the input that caused it to generate that*
>>>>
>>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/6709e046-4794-8011-98b7-27066fb49f3e
>>>> If you did not start with the basis of this link then you cheated.
>>>>
>>> No, someone using some REAL INTELEGENCE, as opposed to a program 
>>> using "artificial intelegence" that had been loaded with false 
>>> premises and other lies.
>>>
>>> Sorry, you are just showing that you have NO intelegence, and are 
>>> depending on a program that includes a disclaimed on every page that 
>>> its answers may have mistakes.
>>
>> I specifically asked it to verify that its key
>> assumption is correct and it did.
> 
> No, it said that given what you told it (which was a lie) 

I asked it if what it was told was a lie and it
explained how what it was told is correct.

Instead of me having to repeat the same thing to
you fifty times why don't you do what I do to
focus my own concentration read what I say many
times over and over until you at least see what
I said.

> the results 
> were correct. Arguememnts, even if valid, that are based on incorrect 
> premises don't prove anything.
> 
>>
>> Could it be correct for HHH(DDD) to report on the behavior
>> of the directly executed DDD()?
>>
>> https://chatgpt.com/share/67158ec6-3398-8011-98d1-41198baa29f2
>>
> 
> Which is only correct if your misdefine what that that means.
> 
> Sorry, getting an AI to beleive your lies does NOT prove your statements 
> are correct, only that you just totally don't understand how logic works.
> 
> You are showing that you are nothing but an ignorant patholgical lying 
> idiot.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer