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From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: The joy of Democracy
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 09:54:35 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 22/10/2024 08:46, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 21 Oct 2024, Dave Yeo wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 12:00:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would say that they are capitalist grifters using social morality to
>>>> justify what they do.
>>>>
>>>> Same as the whole West.
>>>>
>>>> Socialism is the new opium of the people.
>>> Wait ... socialism is actually “capitalist” now? Does that make it 
>>> good or
>>> bad?
>>
>> There's always been socialism in the market economy working much like 
>> the capitalists. Consider Credit Unions, socialist companies owned by 
>> their members competing against capitalist banks. Various types of 
>> Co-op's too.
>> It's always funny people like D who don't seem to have anything but 
>> propaganda to inform them that socialism equals big government.
>> Dave
>>
> 
> You have no clue about what sociaism or capitalism is. Credit unions are 
> definitely not socialism and neither is a company owned by employees. In 
> fact, what makes those two forms possible, is private property rights 
> and capitalism. Nowhere does capitalism state that there can be only one 
> individual owner.

The mere fact that you both talk about socialism as the antithesis of 
capitalism shows that wittingly or unwittingly you both have absorbed 
implicitly the Marxist worldview.

In reality the best companies are co-operative ventures between staff, 
shareholders, and directors, in which oddly enough everyone contributes 
according to his means.

Unfortunately they seldom pay out according to agents needs, but hey, 
its half the equation, right?

But the point about Marxism is not that it identifies a solution through 
revolutionary struggle towards Utopia,  but that it divides society 
neatly into black hats and white hats, and sets up an eternal gunfight 
at the wall street corral.

It is a purely destructive force. One that justifies a new elite far far 
worse than the old as the apparatchiks bureaucrats and commissars in 
charge of the moral compass of the nation, having usurped it from the 
priests, and in charge of the capital wealth of the nation, having 
usurped it from the one most competent in using it to generate wealth, 
can now oversee the descent of the nation into 'the equal sharing of 
poverty'  - apart from the apparatchiks who buy in all the Capitalist 
goods they cant make themselves for their palaces and dachas.

Or that was the way it used to be, before the Left became capitalists 
themselves, and realised that the cost of buying enough politicians. 
marketing people  and activists to pass laws and taxes to make something 
as ridiculous as - say - windmills, a highly profitable investment, was 
vastly preferable to the extremely hard and detailed engineering needed 
to build a grid that actually worked using - say - nuclear power stations.

In that sense the companies themselves have gone 'socialist' in that, 
like Marx, they regard economics as a zero sum game.

That is, it isn't about creating more wealth, it's about who gets to own 
what there is left.


-- 
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your 
oppressors."
      - George Orwell