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From: Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: For those who still don't get that the Honda doesn't offer an
 advantage...
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 01:29:52 -0700
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On 2024-10-24 15:29, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/15/2024 12:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule 
>>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. 
>>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" 
>>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have 
>>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have 
>>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that 
>>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having 
>>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has 
>>>>>>>>> always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda 
>>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the 
>>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one 
>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the 
>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking 
>>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed 
>>>>>>>> first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated 
>>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was 
>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very 
>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have 
>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If 
>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be 
>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and 
>>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you 
>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a 
>>>>>>> dozen teams that get to the final rounds:  it is as if you're 
>>>>>>> trying to claim that the baseball team that loses in the World 
>>>>>>> Series must "suck" because they didn't win in the final round.  
>>>>>>> Sorry, but they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before 
>>>>>>> they got to the final rounds.  Point is that the mere presence of 
>>>>>>> a Kent in the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have 
>>>>>>> done a good job in balancing their index of performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more 
>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not 
>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the 
>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a 
>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so 
>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make 
>>>>>>> an invalid claim:  that a Kent requires higher maintenance 
>>>>>>> explains why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't 
>>>>>>> just as good of a performer on the track.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing 
>>>>>>> ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg 
>>>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the 
>>>>>>> means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car 
>>>>>>> is going to be red.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same principle applies here:  if Kents really are objectively 
>>>>>>> inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance' 
>>>>>>> doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the 
>>>>>>> prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the 
>>>>>>> finals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their 
>>>>>>> representation in the final playoff field should be similar to 
>>>>>>> what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, 
>>>>>>> no matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%.  Ditto for Honda.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are 
>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. 
>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another 
>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit 
>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is 
>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when 
>>>>>>> examining factors within populations:  why did you miss it so badly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in 
>>>>>> the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior 
>>>>>> that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform 
>>>>>> well enough to make the Runoffs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking 
>>>> him.
>>>>
>>>>> Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
>>>>
>>>> If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
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