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From: Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: For those who still don't get that the Honda doesn't offer an
 advantage...
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 01:30:46 -0700
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On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...ON THE TRACK:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why is the field mostly Hondas?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, gee, what do you know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "uncompetitive" Kent...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who'd have thought it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule 
>>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. 
>>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" 
>>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have 
>>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have 
>>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that 
>>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having 
>>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has 
>>>>>>>>> always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda 
>>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the 
>>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
>>>>>>>> won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one 
>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the 
>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking 
>>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed 
>>>>>>>> first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated 
>>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was 
>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very 
>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have 
>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If 
>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be 
>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and 
>>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you 
>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more 
>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not 
>>>>>>>> competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the 
>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a 
>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so 
>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are 
>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. 
>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another 
>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit 
>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is 
>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin 
>>>>>>> time presumably)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...on October 5.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just another example of your careful understanding of the 
>>>>>>> situation, hmmm?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <crickets.wav>
>>>>>
>>>>> Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire 
>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. 
>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all 
>>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all 
>>>>> things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there 
>>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for 
>>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
>>>>
>>>> You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when 
>>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
>>>>
>>>> ...ON THE TRACK,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did 
>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted 
>>>>> you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case 
>>>>> of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do 
>>>>> you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the 
>>>>> rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
>>>>
>>>> I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF 
>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda? 
>>>>> Interesting question, no?
>>>>
>>>> What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was 
>>>> faster...
>>>>
>>>> ...ON THE TRACK.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent 
>>>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show 
>>>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up 
>>>>> this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the 
>>>>> Kent? Why not just one class?
>>>>>
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