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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a new basis --- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 07:28:35 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 81 Message-ID: <vft8pj$25aio$5@dont-email.me> References: <veoift$29dtl$2@dont-email.me> <vf8eu5$1h5mj$2@dont-email.me> <vfdk8g$2lgl1$1@dont-email.me> <vfdrb8$2mcdg$1@dont-email.me> <vffk1i$33iat$1@dont-email.me> <vfgaev$36im7$5@dont-email.me> <vfi743$3kr1e$1@dont-email.me> <vfip3l$3ner2$2@dont-email.me> <1bc1ab08ec47bf818ddff1d4f63b542ceadd6985@i2pn2.org> <vfjokd$3su2f$1@dont-email.me> <vfk3jl$3kr0c$5@i2pn2.org> <vfk4lk$3ukdm$1@dont-email.me> <vfl8o9$3mnmt$5@i2pn2.org> <vfli1h$fj8s$1@dont-email.me> <vflue8$3nvp8$2@i2pn2.org> <vfmd8m$k2m7$1@dont-email.me> <bcd82d9f8a987d3884220c0df7b8f7204cb9de3e@i2pn2.org> <vfmueh$mqn9$1@dont-email.me> <ff039b922cabbb6d44f90aa71a52d8c2f446b6ab@i2pn2.org> <vfo95k$11qs1$1@dont-email.me> <vfp8c0$3tobi$2@i2pn2.org> <vfpcko$1837o$3@dont-email.me> <vfpish$3u885$2@i2pn2.org> <vfpjk2$1976k$1@dont-email.me> <086fc32f14bcc004466d3128b0fe585b27377399@i2pn2.org> <vfqs6h$1jg83$1@dont-email.me> <vfs1fj$2ci0$7@i2pn2.org> <vfs2rm$1q2ou$2@dont-email.me> <cdd23411358bd88db9419d0106ab3e25dc37260b@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 13:28:36 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2dbd9b6f7d5f1796d3ffd574bf3f0b27"; logging-data="2271832"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19OemaBWkYmxDDnnfIjDhmO" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:Myb2E6TXSuzpUuE3bTigTJILaAI= X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241030-2, 10/30/2024), Outbound message In-Reply-To: <cdd23411358bd88db9419d0106ab3e25dc37260b@i2pn2.org> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 5397 On 10/30/2024 6:19 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 10/29/24 9:41 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 10/29/2024 8:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 10/29/24 10:41 AM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 10/29/2024 5:50 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 10/28/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 10/28/2024 9:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 10/28/24 9:09 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 10/28/2024 6:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is IMPOSSIBLE to emulate DDD per the x86 semantics without >>>>>>>>> the code for HHH, so it needs to be part of the input. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *You seemed to be a totally Jackass here* >>>>>>>> You are not that stupid >>>>>>>> You are not that ignorant >>>>>>>> and this is not your ADD >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At machine address 0000217a HHH emulates itself emulating >>>>>>>> DDD without knowing that it is emulating itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then how did it convert the call HHH into an emulation of DDD again? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> When HHH (unknowingly) emulates itself emulating DDD this >>>>>> emulated HHH is going to freaking emulate DDD. >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you think it was going to play poker? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which is what it would do, get stuck and fail to be a decider. It >>>>> might figure out that it is emulating an emulating decider, at >>>>> which point it knows that the decider might choose to abort its >>>>> conditional emulation to return, so it needs to emulate further. >>>>> >>>>> Only by recognizing itself, does it have grounds to say that if I >>>>> don't abort, it never will, and thus I am stuck, so I need to abort. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Counter-factual. This algorithm has no ability to its own code. >>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c // page 801 >>>> >>>> *That people fail to agree with this and also fail to* >>>> *correctly point out any error seems to indicate dishonestly* >>>> *or lack of technical competence* >>>> >>>> DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantics of the x86 >>>> language cannot possibly reach its own "return" instruction >>>> whether or not any HHH ever aborts its emulation of DDD. >>>> >>> >>> No, it knows its own code because it rule for "No conditional >>> branches" excludes that code. >>> >> >> Are you really so stupid that you think this will help >> DDD reach its own return instruction? > > DDD doesn't need any help to reach its own return instruction, as the > HHH that it calls DOES abort and return to it. > Are you really so stupid that you think you can keep getting away with the strawman deception by changing the subject away from DDD emulated by HHH? -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer