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From: Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Whoops! The Atlantic Makes Trump Look EPIC In Cover Intended as a
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 21:00:20 -0400
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On 10/30/2024 7:44 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/30/2024 5:29 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 10/30/24 14:12, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 10/30/2024 3:54 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 10/30/2024 4:39 AM, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This raises questions about the future job of programmers. Do you
>>>>>> believe that the field will be split into simple code-monkeys where
>>>>>> salaries with the help of AI, will decrease more and more over 
>>>>>> time, and
>>>>>> the "elite" who actually are the ones who develop new algorithms, 
>>>>>> tools
>>>>>> and AI that serve to reduce the salaries of the code-monkeys?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea and I am in the business of writing and selling 
>>>>> software.
>>>>>   Programming is an odd profession, very few programmers actually 
>>>>> have a
>>>>> programming degree.  My degree is in Mechanical Engineering, one of my
>>>>> programmers has a PhD in Chemical Engineering, and my other programmer
>>>>> has a double degree in Chemistry and Physics.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty much every programmer I've worked with over the last forty 
>>>> five years
>>>> has had a degree in computer science or computer engineering.  There
>>>> have been some without degrees that learned on the job (e.g. started
>>>> in product support and moved to programming, but those are the 
>>>> exception,
>>>> not the rule).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Many of the elite programmers never graduated from college.  Bill 
>>>>> Gates,
>>>>> Mark Zuckerberg, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Calling either of them 'elite' programmers is inaccurate.  Good 
>>>> businessmen,
>>>> perhaps.  Perhaps even good idea men.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Windows is, however, a steaming pile.  Popular by default, not by 
>>>> design.
>>>
>>> And you just outed yourself as an elitist with that last comment.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>      And what definition of elitist do you use, Lynn McGuire?
>>
>> Let me say that I used an Amiga computer from Commodore Business
>> machines. I have a long standing hostility toward Mircosoft
>> producte. I know that Windows is better than every before but
>> the interface is so obstuctive that I will not even run it in
>> a VirtualBox under Linux. When Commodore Business Machines
>> went out of business I hung around for a while but eventually
>> the hardware became too difficult to get repaired.
>> I moved to Linux in 2006 and I have used Window XP and helped
>> people understand Windows 3.1 and wiped out Windows 10 from
>> my computers repeatedly as I got other computers to replace
>> older and less well cared for machines.
>>      Now I do that on Social Security and I could not afford
>> licenses for the software that Windows or even MacIntosh uses.
>> I would prefer to be using an updated AmigaOS but the current
>> hardware is very expensive which is the rule with smaller companies
>> but I could run an emulator but those are directed toward gamers
>> rather than writers. I am old and sick unable to do all my own
>> shopping without a friends assitance with tranportation.
>>      So am I a member of an elite?  I have no formal eduation
>> aside from HS and a few course in the USN plus before I retired
>> classes to keep my nursing license. oh I am white so maybe I
>> am an elite.  But I am devotely anti-racist abd a survivor
>> of minor challenges to my health.
>>      But strangely enough my Opinion of Windoss is very
>> negative.
>>
>> bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.10-Linux 6.6.58-Plasma 5.27.11
> 
> You are an end user, do and say whatever you want.  Scott is / was a 
> professional programmer, to make a statement like that is incredibly 
> unprofessional in my opinion.
> 
> Scott probably knows but maybe does not, is that Bill Gates wrote the 
> first Basic compiler/interpreter for Microsoft in 2,000 bytes of 8080 
> assembly language.  It actually ran on the Altair 8800 with 4,000 bytes 
> of ram.  I would call Gates an elite programmer.
> 
> Mark Zuckerberg was the only programmer for Facebook for several years. 
> He got Facebook up and going by himself before hiring any employees.  I 
> would call Zuckerberg an elite programmer.
> 
> I could name dozens of other elite programmers.  Thompson, Ritchie, 
> Kernighan, Carmack, etc.  So could Scott.
> 
> Lynn


A professional will work with any machine the task requires, under
any OS that is required, in any language that is required.

I've written code for microcontrollers and up (though not much on
mainframes), in assembly and at least a dozen higher level languages.

I've probably worked on 20 different OSs, sometimes with VMs for
multiple OSs simultaneously on the same screen.

Are there some I like more than others? Sure (Linux). Are there
some I'd prefer never to see again? Yes (Symbian).

But the vast majority can do the job, and I'll do them as long
as the paychecks don't bounce.

pt