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From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:43:57 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 31/10/2024 04:25, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 10/30/24 1:33 PM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/10/2024 09:59, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 21:43:13 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Many centuries left. We'll mine the ocean floors, we'll reach for the
>>>>>> stars (or at least asteroids). Eventually we'll expand beyond the 
>>>>>> earth.
>>>>>> The people predicting crashes and famines have been wrong every time,
>>>>>> except for when alternatives to capitalism has been tried. Then there
>>>>>> have been real famines.
>>>>>
>>>>> I worked summers for the NYS Dept. of Education and the basement 
>>>>> corridors
>>>>> were filled with pallets of newspapers. (and 5 gallon buckets of 
>>>>> water,
>>>>> reusable as toilets after the Ruskies attacked) I don't know if 
>>>>> they were
>>>>> waiting to be microfilmed or stacked and forgotten.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mostly read the funnies and old ads but I found a trove of 1929
>>>>> editions. "The fundamentals are sound!" as they took the express route
>>>>> down from the 30th floor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I love a good science fiction yarn but I realize the space travel 
>>>>> genre is
>>>>> mostly fiction. The dystopian worlds run by AI probably aren't.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it is future, so by design fuzzy around the edges. But looking 
>>>> at the history of the planet, and the fact that despite being 
>>>> capable of destroying our planet several times over, we've managed 
>>>> not to do so (with all the crazy people in power) gives me enormous 
>>>> hope. Yes, I'm an optimist!
>>>
>>> Oh we wont destroy the planet. Just our own civilization
>>> Read Joseph Tainter.
>>
>> Doubtful. It will change form and shape. We might have a recession or 
>> two, but it will hardly be the end of civilization.
>>
>>> He lays it all oy very plainly. A society finds a better way to 
>>> exploit nature. It grows, and extends, as it does so it needs rules 
>>> and regulations laws taxes and competent bureaucrats. Then its 
>>> resource base starts to get strained, and it needs even more 
>>> complexity and bureaucracy to keep it going.
>>> Eventually the quality of people needed to keep it going also runs out.
>>> And it collapses into autonomous fragments.
>>
>> What I think will happen in the near term is that socialism will 
>> temporarily destroy a lot of value in the world, in line with what 
>> Joseph says. This is proven, and a fact, and should not surprise anyone.
>>
>> But as we've done in the past, we learn the lessons, start again. End 
>> of civilization? Hardly. A bump in the road, definitely.
> 
> 
>    Perhaps an overly-insular view ? 'Socialism' rarely does
>    anything good, but what's often ignored is that various
>    barbarians ARE at the proverbial gate ... eager to exploit
>    problems.
> 
Yup. They are. And unlike the Western cultures they seek to replace, 
they have no dounts at all.
They are better, we are shit and we need to be genocidally excised. 
Women raped and turned into sex slaves in time honored fashion.

>    In short, The World is NOT all about the USA or even
>    "The West". We trash it, THEY quickly move in. The
>    'cycles' you see can be fatal today. 1850 is GONE.

We haven't trashed it yet, but they will.

In the dying years of apartheid I worked alongside a really cool Zulu 
guy from Soweto. We were, insofar as it was possible, friends.

He used to get the propaganda from the Cuban Communists at the weekend 
and ask me about it the next week:

"How come the white man rules over us?"
"Because they, and I, know how to build a rifle, and you do not"

"Why do I have to speak English instead of Zulu"

"What's the name of this (picking up a cross head screwdriver) in Zulu"
"We don't have a name for it".

And so on.

The problem is without that core of knowledge and the right worldview 
science and technology comes to a halt with (fundamental)  Islam. And 
indeed the peoples of - say - Zimbabwe under a Russian style genocidally 
racist totalitarian black regime.

If you think that Allah decides what happens, instead of the laws of 
nature, what is the point in even trying to make stuff different? 
Insh'allah.

If you reject 'white mans' knowledge on racist grounds, well bye bye hi 
tech.

And I suspect that is what will happen. If the chinese dont take over, 
the barbarians will. And will be welcomed by those who have been taught 
to hate their own culture and fear science.



-- 
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone 
gets full Marx.