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From: "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2024 12:40:43 -0400
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"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:f1kcij51cie8n6c2qdq9fdj7dbm2alsuev@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 12:00:36 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:p5ecij1jf5a4in5mnmelkdfrovelr0esko@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 02 Nov 2024 07:44:28 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Nov 2024 22:50:41 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Nick Hayward
>>>><nhayward8990@protonmail.com> wrote in <vg3m01$3e15j$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 19:57:21 +0100, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/1/24 19:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> You can call me old fashioned, but I still believe there's never been a
>>>>>>> more elegant computer language than the original K&R C. You can keep
>>>>>>> the rest; I'll stick with that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed! All the hand-holding of later versions just get in the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>
>>>>>What about C++?
>>>>
>>>>It is a crime against humanity!!!
>>>
>>> Most computing languages originate from programmers wanting to play
>>> with programming because solving real-world problems - the things we
>>> pay them to do - isn't interesting.
>>>
>>> In academia, they need toys and things to argue about so they keep
>>> inventing languages. It's like economists who can't say "let the
>>> market work, and econ 101 is all anybody needs."
>>>
>>> I sat in on one cs class where new languages weren't enough fun, so
>>> the prof lectured about compiler compilers, a whole new layer of
>>> abstraction.
>>>
>>
>>Ah lex and yacc.
>>Well if you're going to use any kind of compiler/interpreter, someone has to write it.
>>
>>Does LTSpice originate from designers wanting to play with simulation because putting real parts together isn't interesting?
>
> It's slow and expensive to make ICs, so it makes sense to simulate
> first. The ICE in SPICE means "integrated circuit emphasis."

There can't be anyone here who doesn't already know that or who hasn't seen that video.

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6TrbD7-IwU
>
> That's brilliant, cultivating your intuition. But I disagree about
> using Spice to design real products: it works.
>
>>
>>Managers tend to like simulation because you don't have to get your hands dirty.
>>At least not until the design which worked fine in simulation either doesn't work at all or has some unexpected issue in reality.
>>
>>
>
> I can run a sim that steps through hundreds or thousands of cases, and
> run it over a weekend. A silimar set of  breadboard tests might take
> months of hands-on bench work.

I'm not suggesting you should breadboard everything, that's simply not possible.

>
> And I was never good at nonlinear control theory. Nobody is.
>
> I do breadboard to test parts whose models can't be trusted or when
> models are unavailable, but we seldom breadboard complex circuits and
> never breadboard actual products.
>
> I know of one giant organization that defines six iterations of a
> design, and uses at least that many. It takes them years to finish
> anything.
>