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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a
 new basis --- getting somewhere
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2024 06:48:31 -0600
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On 11/4/2024 6:07 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/3/24 11:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/3/2024 9:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/3/24 10:19 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/3/2024 7:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/3/24 8:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/3/2024 7:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/3/24 8:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What would an unbounded emulation do?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keep on emulating for an unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something you don't seem to understand as part of the requirements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Non-Halting isn't just did reach a final state in some finite 
>>>>>>> number of steps, but that it will NEVER reach a final state even 
>>>>>>> if you process an unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would an unbounded emulation of DDD by HHH halt?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a valid question, as your HHH does not do an unbounded 
>>>>> emulation, but aborts after a defined time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Now you are contradicting yourself*
>>>> YOU JUST SAID THAT HHH NEED NOT DO AN UNBOUNDED
>>>> EMULATION TO PREDICT WHAT AN UNBOUNDED EMULATION WOULD DO.
>>>
>>> Right. it doesn't NEED to do the operation, just report what an 
>>> unbounded emulation would do.
>>>
>>> You asked about an "unbounded emulation of DDD by HHH" but that isn't 
>>> possible, as HHH doesn't do that.
>>>
>>
>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>  > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
>>  >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
>>  >
>>  > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>  > emulation of that input would do, even if its own programming
>>  > only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>  >
>>
>> *You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
>> *You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
>> *You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
>> *You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
>>
> 
> Right, it doesn't need to DO the unbounded emulatiohn just figure out 
> what it would do.
> 
> Just like we can compute:
> 
> 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... + 1/2^n + ...
> 
> Ether by adding the infinite number of terms, or we can notice something 
> about it to say it will sum, in the infinite limit, to 2.
> 
> 
> In the same way, if HHH can see something in its simulation that tells 
> it THIS this program can NEVER halt, it can report it.
> 

Anyone with sufficient technical competence can see that
the unbounded emulation of DDD emulated by HHH can never halt.

> That is what it can easily do with your Infinite_Loop program, and with 
> a bit more intelegence with Infinite_Recursion.
> 
> It doesn't work with DDD, as if the decider HHH aborts its simulation of 
> DDD, then so will the copy of HHH that DDD called.
> 

On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>
 >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
 >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
 >
 > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
 > emulation of that input would do, even if its own programming
 > only lets it emulate a part of that.
 >

*YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF*
You are saying that a finite computation can predict the
behavior of an unbounded computation and then saying

that the finite computation of HHH cannot predict the
unbounded computation of DDD because it is a finite computation.

*YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF*
*YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF*
*YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF*
*YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer