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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a new basis ---
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 11:46:58 +0200
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On 2024-11-04 23:42:51 +0000, Andy Walker said:

> On 04/11/2024 14:05, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> [...] The statement itself does not change
>>>>>> when someone states it so there is no clear advantage in
>>>>>> saying that the statement was not a lie until someone stated
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>     Disagree.  There is a clear advantage in distinguishing those
>>>>> who make [honest] mistakes from those who wilfully mislead.
>>>> That is not a disagreement.
>>>     I disagree. [:-)]
>> Then show how two statements about distinct topics can disagree.
> 
> 	You've had the free, introductory five-minute argument;  the
> half-hour argument has to be paid for. [:-)]
> 
> 	[Perhaps more helpfully, "distinct" is your invention.  One same
> statement can be either true or false, a mistake or a lie, depending on
> the context (time. place and motivation) within which it is uttered.
> Plenty of examples both in everyday life and in science, inc maths.  Eg,
> "It's raining!", "The angles of a triangle sum to 180 degrees.", "The
> Sun goes round the Earth.".  Each of those is true in some contexts, false
> and a mistake in others, false and a lie in yet others.  English has clear
> distinctions between these, which it is useful to maintain;  it is not
> useful to describe them as "lies" in the absence of any context, eg when
> the statement has not yet been uttered.]

Thatk's. That is reasonable from the language maintenance. However, in
your examples the context changes the meaning of the sentence. In the
first example the time and place are a part of the meaning. The second
example is true in Euclidean geometry but in some geometries in may be
false as a general rule or even about every triangle. In the third example
it depends on what one regards as stationary bcause we only can observe
relative motion, as Oresme correctly pointed out. When a sentence is
called a lie it refers to the (usually obvious) meaning of the sentence.

But your comment about "distiction" is clearly false. My comment was
about statments but yours was about those how make mistakes and
those who wilfully mislead. A sentence does not make mistakes and
does not wilfully do anything.

-- 
Mikko