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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Facebook Account
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:34:55 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 11/5/2024 11:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 11/5/2024 12:18 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/5/2024 10:53 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2024 10:25 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 11/5/2024 8:47 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/5/2024 9:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/4/2024 9:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/4/2024 7:07 PM, Shadow wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     "But it's in the Constitution" - just saying 
>>>>>>>> that lowers the
>>>>>>>> score. The World has changed a LOT in over 100 
>>>>>>>> years, and laws need to
>>>>>>>> change to accompany that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I occasionally encounter people who treat the U.S. 
>>>>>>> Constitution as perfection itself, and as a holy 
>>>>>>> document That Must Never Be Criticized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But despite its revisions (AKA amendments) I think 
>>>>>>> it's got serious flaws. As evidence, there are now 
>>>>>>> hundreds of nations with constitutions. Not one has 
>>>>>>> duplicated the U.S. Constitution. All have at least 
>>>>>>> attempted to improve on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With mixed success. I give you the overwhelmingly 
>>>>>> adopted 18th Amendment, the only one more destructive 
>>>>>> than the 17th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change for its own sake is not always positive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> An amendment defining the structure of the senate is 
>>>>> the 2nd most destructive?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It removed the State legislatures from the process. 
>>>> That's a big change, as reflected by candidates' 
>>>> positions and campaign strategies and of course who is 
>>>> elected.
>>>
>>> Wait, so you're saying the state legislatures should have 
>>> the exclusive authority to appoint senators, regardless 
>>> of the will of the people?
>>>
>>> I'm having difficulty seeing how the people electing 
>>> senators is "destructive".
>>>
>>
>> For the same reason that pattern and practice of elections 
>> is the sole plenary duty of the legislature, not 
>> referenda, not by one official elected or appointed.
>>
>> The Framers preferred a deliberative process for many 
>> decisions (by no means all) and we differ, as much now as 
>> then, about where those lines should be drawn.
>>
> 
> So why then don't we just have the president selected by the 
> congress? Fuck what the people actually want.
> 

Scary thought, which may be more pertinent than you think.

Rather than a popular vote, Presidential Electors are 
roughly proportioned by population, roughly because each 
State also gets two automatically besides the number of 
Congressional seats.

In the unlikely event that Electors are tied, the vote goes 
to the House with each State contributing one vote. Yep, 
Wyoming's opinion has equal weight to California.  This has 
actually happened and provoked a deluge of money, power 
extortion and bribery from many quarters to deny President 
Tilden the office.  Let's not see a replay!

Back to your comment, the pith is in the final clause. Which 
people, exactly? A popular vote would overly weigh the 
influence of Virginia (then; now it would be California) and 
campaigns would easily ignore Rhode Island ((then and now; 
plus Wyoming) altogether.


The document was not dashed off in haste. It's complex for 
good reasons then, which may or may not suit all readers today.
-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971