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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a new basis ---
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:45:37 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: muc.de e.V.
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Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
> On 04/11/2024 14:05, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> [...] The statement itself does not change
>>>>>> when someone states it so there is no clear advantage in
>>>>>> saying that the statement was not a lie until someone stated
>>>>>> it.
>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Disagree.=C2=A0 There is a clear advantage =
in distinguishing those
>>>>> who make [honest] mistakes from those who wilfully mislead.
>>>> That is not a disagreement.
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I disagree. [:-)]
>> Then show how two statements about distinct topics can disagree.

>        You've had the free, introductory five-minute argument;  the
> half-hour argument has to be paid for. [:-)]

>        [Perhaps more helpfully, "distinct" is your invention.  One same
> statement can be either true or false, a mistake or a lie, depending on
> the context (time. place and motivation) within which it is uttered.
> Plenty of examples both in everyday life and in science, inc maths.  Eg=
,
> "It's raining!", "The angles of a triangle sum to 180 degrees.", "The
> Sun goes round the Earth.".  Each of those is true in some contexts, fa=
lse
> and a mistake in others, false and a lie in yet others.  English has cl=
ear
> distinctions between these, which it is useful to maintain;  it is not
> useful to describe them as "lies" in the absence of any context, eg whe=
n
> the statement has not yet been uttered.]

There is another sense in which something could be a lie.  If, for
example, I empatically asserted some view about the minutiae of medical
surgery, in opposition to the standard view accepted by practicing
surgeons, no matter how sincere I might be in that belief, I would be
lying.  Lying by ignorance.

Peter Olcott is likewise ignorant about mathematical logic.  So in that
sense, the false things he continually asserts _are_ lies.

> --=20
> Andy Walker, Nottingham.
>    Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
>    Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Peerson

--=20
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).