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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a
 new basis ---Breakthrough ?
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2024 21:10:32 -0600
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On 11/9/2024 9:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/9/24 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/9/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/9/24 9:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/9/2024 8:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/9/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:59 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 8:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 6:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 6:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 2:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 3:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>>>  >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
>>>>>>>>>>  >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>  > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>>>>>>>  > emulation of that input would do, even if its own programming
>>>>>>>>>>  > only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am saying that HHH does need to do the infinite emulation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right and it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But doesn't give the required answer, which is based on 
>>>>>>>>>>> something doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The unaborted emulation of DDD by HHH DOES NOT HALT.
>>>>>>>>>> *Maybe I have to dumb it down some more*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But that isn't the HHH that you are talking about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It seems, you don't understand that in a given evaluation, HHH 
>>>>>>>>> and DDD are FIXED PROGRAM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HHH predicts what would happen if no HHH ever aborted
>>>>>>>>>> its emulation of DDD. This specific DDD never halts
>>>>>>>>>> even if it stops running due to out-of-memory error.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In other words, it tries to predict what some OTHER version of 
>>>>>>>>> the program DDD would do if it was based on some OTHER version 
>>>>>>>>> of HHH, 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Yes just like you agreed that it should*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>  > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>>>>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>>>>>>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, never said it could immulate some OTHER input, or predict 
>>>>>>> what some OTHER program does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You said that the bounded HHH
>>>>>>  > must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, the UNBOUNDED EMULATION, not the results of a different DDD 
>>>>> that called an HHH that did an unbounded emulation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The input doesn't change, and the input specifies the HHH that DDD 
>>>>> calls. so that doesn't change.
>>>>
>>>> What changes is that the HHH that does abort must
>>>> report on what the behavior of DDD would be if it
>>>> never aborted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, the HHH that the input call can not change, or everything that 
>>> you say afterwords is just a lie.
>>>
>>> HHH doesn't report on the non-sense idea of it being something 
>>> different than it is, that is just foolishness.
>>>
>>
>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>  > must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>  >
>>
>> HHH
>>  > must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>
>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>  >
>> Even HHH itself is bounded
>>
>>
> 
> Right, but that unlimited emulation isn't done by CHANGING the copy of 
> HHH that DDD calls, but by giving the input to a DIFFERENT program than 
> HHH that does the unlimited emulation,

*That is NOT what you said*

On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > [HHH itself] must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
 > emulation of that input would do,

 > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
 >



-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer