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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a
 new basis ---Breakthrough ?
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2024 21:36:46 -0600
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On 11/9/2024 9:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/9/24 10:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/9/2024 9:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/9/24 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/9/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/9/24 9:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 8:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:59 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 8:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 6:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 6:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 2:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/24 3:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > emulation of that input would do, even if its own 
>>>>>>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am saying that HHH does need to do the infinite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulation itself, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right and it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But doesn't give the required answer, which is based on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The unaborted emulation of DDD by HHH DOES NOT HALT.
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Maybe I have to dumb it down some more*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But that isn't the HHH that you are talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems, you don't understand that in a given evaluation, 
>>>>>>>>>>> HHH and DDD are FIXED PROGRAM.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH predicts what would happen if no HHH ever aborted
>>>>>>>>>>>> its emulation of DDD. This specific DDD never halts
>>>>>>>>>>>> even if it stops running due to out-of-memory error.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, it tries to predict what some OTHER version 
>>>>>>>>>>> of the program DDD would do if it was based on some OTHER 
>>>>>>>>>>> version of HHH, 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Yes just like you agreed that it should*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>>>>>>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>>>>>>>>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of 
>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, never said it could immulate some OTHER input, or predict 
>>>>>>>>> what some OTHER program does.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said that the bounded HHH
>>>>>>>>  > must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>>>>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, the UNBOUNDED EMULATION, not the results of a different 
>>>>>>> DDD that called an HHH that did an unbounded emulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The input doesn't change, and the input specifies the HHH that 
>>>>>>> DDD calls. so that doesn't change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What changes is that the HHH that does abort must
>>>>>> report on what the behavior of DDD would be if it
>>>>>> never aborted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, the HHH that the input call can not change, or everything that 
>>>>> you say afterwords is just a lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> HHH doesn't report on the non-sense idea of it being something 
>>>>> different than it is, that is just foolishness.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>  > must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>>>  >
>>>>
>>>> HHH
>>>>  > must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>>>
>>>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>>>  >
>>>> Even HHH itself is bounded
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right, but that unlimited emulation isn't done by CHANGING the copy 
>>> of HHH that DDD calls, but by giving the input to a DIFFERENT program 
>>> than HHH that does the unlimited emulation,
>>
>> *That is NOT what you said*
>>
>> On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>  > [HHH itself] must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
>>  > emulation of that input would do,
>>
>>  > even if its own programming only lets it emulate a part of that.
>>  >
>>
> 
> No, that *IS* what I said, you just don't hear right, because you 
> "filter" thing through your stupidity.
> 
> I said emulation of *that* input.
> 

HHH must determine what would happen if HHH never aborted DDD.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer