Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no>
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: Arm ldaxr / stxr loop question
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 07:37:46 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <vh1hfr$2329k$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vfono1$14l9r$1@dont-email.me>
 <YROdnVIXfKmwYrn6nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <vg5tf7$3tqmi$2@dont-email.me> <vgm0g1$3c2t2$3@dont-email.me>
 <zwwXO.842112$_o_3.379966@fx17.iad> <vgm4vj$3d2as$1@dont-email.me>
 <vgm5cb$3d2as$3@dont-email.me> <OnzXO.657386$1m96.281665@fx15.iad>
 <TfKXO.658488$1m96.146506@fx15.iad> <T99YO.79275$MoU3.7336@fx36.iad>
 <3lGdnVvGQIAq2676nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <vh0jo6$1q1hl$3@dont-email.me>
 <0TmdnaP6ecXoQ676nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 07:37:47 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="aefbfb75af1ec7cc91ccab47cc8eb48b";
	logging-data="2197812"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18HOdDLP4fntmsWl/7nrGAZRmckia/WDLAcgOQlQn4PBA=="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.19
Cancel-Lock: sha1:28mF6mV+sCI5Ku9+2O5oMq+oSVw=
In-Reply-To: <0TmdnaP6ecXoQ676nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>
Bytes: 3206

aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2024 4:14 AM, aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid wrote:
>>>
>>> One other thing to be aware of is that the StoreLoad barrier needed
>>> for sequential consistency is logically part of an LDAR, not part of a
>>> STLR. This is an optimization, because the purpose of a StoreLoad in
>>> that situation is to prevent you from seeing your own stores to a
>>> location before everyone else sees them.
>>
>> Fwiw, even x86/x64 needs StoreLoad when an algorithm depends on a
>> store followed by a load to another location to hold. LoadStore is
>> not strong enough. The SMR algorithm needs that. Iirc, Peterson's
>> algorithms needs it as well.
> 
> That's right, but my point about LDAR on AArch64 is that you can get
> sequential consistency without needing a StoreLoad. LDAR can peek
> inside the store buffer and, much of the time, determine that it isn't
> necessary to do a flush. I don't know if Arm were the first to do
> this, but I don't recall seeing it before. It is a brilliant idea.

Isn't this just reusing the normal forwarding network?

If not found, you do as usual and start a regular load operation, but 
now you also know that you can skip the flushing of the same?

PS. I do agree that it is a good idea (even patent-worthy?), but not 
brilliant since it is so very obvious in hindsight.

To me brilliant is something that still isn't obvious after larning 
about it.

Terje

-- 
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"