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From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 12:58:21 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 13/11/2024 09:29, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> On 12/11/2024 21:40, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:
>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/11/2024 20:41, D wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/11/2024 19:45, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 11:51:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Isolationism led to Pearl  Harbour...and 911
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wrong on both counts. Stick to philosophy; your grasp of history is
>>>>>>>> deficient.
>>>>>>> Wrong on both counts. Stick to parochial matters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think rbowman has impressed me the most with his grasp of history, and
>>>>>> our differences when it comes to philosophy speak for themselves. So no
>>>>>> points for you I'm afraid. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> This inst a fucking debating society.
>>>>> This is the future of civilisation.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, so _this_ is where the future of civilisation gets decided.
>>>>
>>>> Now where was that group where people talk about computers?...
>>>>
>>>> But actually I was slightly looking forward to an explanation of
>>>> how Pearl Harbour and 9/11 were consequences of isolationism. It's
>>>> not my understanding of history either.
>>> NP has seemingly conflated WWI with WWII.
>>
>> Not sure what 911 event happened in WW1
>>
>> Pearl harbour happened because the Japanese, having been allowed to
>> rape china concluded that the USA was a soft target.
> 
> Agreed that Pearl Harbour was, to a certain extent, a consequence of the
> US attempting to sit out WWII. (But also, a consequence of astoundingly
> bad decision making in Japan, which would have also been the case if the
> US had got involved earlier, albeit presumably with different
> consequences.)
> 
>> 911 happened because the USA in its inimitably parochial way totally
>> failed to understand or notice the rise in Islamic fundamentalism.
>>
>> At the time I thought 911 was understandable, but *undeserved*...
> 
> Less agreement here.
> 
> * Both broad strokes and specifics of US policy in the 1990s were highly
>    interventionist. One of ObL’s big beefs was the US troops in Saudi
>    Arabia.
> 
> * The Americans very were aware of AQ’s ambitions based on the 1993 WTC
>    bombing, the 1995 multi-airplane plot, etc.
> 
> * The US were actively and overtly targetting AQ facilities, e.g. cruise
>    missile attacks on Sudan.
> 
> In my view the failings that failings that enabled 911 were more about
> the details of their response to the AQ threat, rather than being in the
> wrong place on the intervention/isolation spectrum.
> 

Well at a certain point they merge.

Since we are talking about the detailed response to the Putin threat.

He is *already* committing acts of sabotage in the USA and Europe and 
political assassination outside of Russia.

rbwoman wants to simply ignore this as 'not America's problem' That's 
isolationism

*It already is*  ...and pretending that ignoring it will make it go away 
is rather sweet, but ultimately not especially effective.
..

-- 
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the 
urge to rule it.”
– H. L. Mencken