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From: Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500
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On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of
>>>>>>>>> stuff on
>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk.  I guess that's a
>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch.  Perhaps one day we'll
>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger!
>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended
>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And there's this:
>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg
>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional
>>>>>>> side paths.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more
>>>>>> dangerious then the road?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I did not argue that.
>>>>>
>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and
>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Quit emulating Tom.
>>>>
>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>
>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes
>>> are] more dangerous then the road?"
>>>
>>> spelling corrected and context clarified.
>>>
>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again
>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my
>> positions are convincing anybody.
> 
> 
> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a
> distortion?
> 
> Here it is again....
> 
> 
> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
> --Frank Krygowski
>   https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm

This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be."

And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No. 
98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz

His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the 
earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a 
thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American 
Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per 
million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW 
first, WA second, LAB third:

Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41
Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59
Multiuse trail:                181, 91, 88.

All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than 
ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled.

And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with 
reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small 
portion of our rides use such trails.

BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in 
question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of 
leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over 
an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs.

That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the 
pavement stays quite clean.


-- 
- Frank Krygowski