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From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:57:24 -0500
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On 11/13/2024 3:23 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff on
>>>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk.  I guess that's a
>>>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch.  Perhaps one day we'll
>>>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger!
>>>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended
>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And there's this:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg
>>>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional
>>>>>>>>> side paths.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more
>>>>>>>> dangerious then the road?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I did not argue that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and
>>>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quit emulating Tom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes
>>>>> are] more dangerous then the road?"
>>>>>
>>>>> spelling corrected and context clarified.
>>>>>
>>>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again
>>>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my
>>>> positions are convincing anybody.
>>>
>>>
>>> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a
>>> distortion?
>>>
>>> Here it is again....
>>>
>>>
>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>    https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>
>> This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be."
> 
> No baffling involved. I simply quoted the incorrect, nonsense that you
> wrote.

and conflated "all are" with "can be" in the process.
If you know you did it, you're a liar.
If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant.

So, are you ignorant? or a liar?

> 
>> And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No.
>> 98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz
>>
>> His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the
>> earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a
>> thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American
>> Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per
>> million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW
>> first, WA second, LAB third:
>>
>> Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41
>> Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59
>> Multiuse trail:                181, 91, 88.
>>
>> All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than
>> ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled.
>>
>> And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with
>> reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small
>> portion of our rides use such trails.
> 
> Didn't you admit that you used them?
> 
>> BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in
>> question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of
>> leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over
>> an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs.
> 
> Another undocumented anecdote.....
> 
>> That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the
>> pavement stays quite clean.
> 
> Those studies don't mention what types of cyclists were involved.
> 
> Given that a far higher percentage of cyclists on MUPs would likely be
> inexperienced, elderly, and/or children, the results of studies are
> worthless.

Not nearly as worthless as you opinion.

> 
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman


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