Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 07:15:49 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 188
Message-ID: <vh4pll$2q3pb$2@dont-email.me>
References: <93p8jjl43oufp7l30ohlubr3likqlbbekl@4ax.com>
 <n1s8jjd3b2jjdk8nj82vf5s5aucecfbbut@4ax.com> <vh2fng$28nrv$1@dont-email.me>
 <ckh9jjde8aaeh2vloenunmqb34405iujd8@4ax.com> <vh2j4e$29d5i$1@dont-email.me>
 <vh2shc$2bcig$1@dont-email.me> <r2u9jj972mdjhf9of0l7tf6jiob7fo8lt6@4ax.com>
 <vh30ig$2bcig$8@dont-email.me> <ki1ajj9en6f3no6apm2cknqrssmcr7c3eh@4ax.com>
 <vh33rk$2cns3$2@dont-email.me> <lq5ajjlr1enu7f53a9fjdjt7hglaf9jr0a@4ax.com>
 <vh35s6$2cns3$8@dont-email.me> <dv8ajjtlof6g6srb9j1a8513ai464rqup1@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 13:15:50 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5679e70471f683189318c475c28c7608";
	logging-data="2953003"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18xE3yNnRsjtIcoeQPuzKZGqnD1VpKuw/w="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:BdQgI57pZ4OSvEtmrdl3YQuSkro=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <dv8ajjtlof6g6srb9j1a8513ai464rqup1@4ax.com>
Bytes: 8881

On 11/13/2024 5:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:31:50 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/13/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:57:24 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/13/2024 3:23 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk.  I guess that's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch.  Perhaps one day we'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> side paths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more
>>>>>>>>>>>> dangerious then the road?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, I did not argue that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and
>>>>>>>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Quit emulating Tom.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>>>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>>>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>>>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes
>>>>>>>>> are] more dangerous then the road?"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> spelling corrected and context clarified.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again
>>>>>>>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my
>>>>>>>> positions are convincing anybody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a
>>>>>>> distortion?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here it is again....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>      https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be."
>>>>>
>>>>> No baffling involved. I simply quoted the incorrect, nonsense that you
>>>>> wrote.
>>>>
>>>> and conflated "all are" with "can be" in the process.
>>>> If you know you did it, you're a liar.
>>>> If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant.
>>>>
>>>> So, are you ignorant? or a liar?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No.
>>>>>> 98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the
>>>>>> earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a
>>>>>> thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American
>>>>>> Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per
>>>>>> million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW
>>>>>> first, WA second, LAB third:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41
>>>>>> Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59
>>>>>> Multiuse trail:                181, 91, 88.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than
>>>>>> ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with
>>>>>> reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small
>>>>>> portion of our rides use such trails.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't you admit that you used them?
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in
>>>>>> question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of
>>>>>> leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over
>>>>>> an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another undocumented anecdote.....
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the
>>>>>> pavement stays quite clean.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those studies don't mention what types of cyclists were involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that a far higher percentage of cyclists on MUPs would likely be
>>>>> inexperienced, elderly, and/or children, the results of studies are
>>>>> worthless.
>>>>
>>>> Not nearly as worthless as you opinion.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>> Soloman
>>>
>>> Truth is, Junior, I never mentioned the words, "all are." I simply
>>> quoted Krygowski's nonsense.
>>
>> The truth is, dumbass, you copy pasted Franks message from your "Frank
>> File"* in support of Johns claim that Frank said "All", conflating "all
>> are" with "can be" in the process.
> 
> I did no such thing. I simply posted something related to it.

Unlike you, we have reading comprehension beyond the 4th grade. Your 
intention was to conflate it 'all are' with 'can be'.

> 
>> If you know you did it, you're a liar.
>> If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant.
>>
>> So, are you ignorant? or a liar?
> 
> Wow, Junior. What are you so angry about?

Got it, you're both.

> 
>> * You still don't get how revealing of your (lack of) character and
>> hypocrisy it is to keep a "frank file" with all his messages for easy
>> access.
> 
> Those Krygowski quotes above came directly from the website he and his
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========