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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 08:18:19 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 246 Message-ID: <vh4tar$2q3pa$4@dont-email.me> References: <vh2fng$28nrv$1@dont-email.me> <ckh9jjde8aaeh2vloenunmqb34405iujd8@4ax.com> <vh2j4e$29d5i$1@dont-email.me> <vh2shc$2bcig$1@dont-email.me> <r2u9jj972mdjhf9of0l7tf6jiob7fo8lt6@4ax.com> <vh30ig$2bcig$8@dont-email.me> <ki1ajj9en6f3no6apm2cknqrssmcr7c3eh@4ax.com> <vh33rk$2cns3$2@dont-email.me> <lq5ajjlr1enu7f53a9fjdjt7hglaf9jr0a@4ax.com> <vh35s6$2cns3$8@dont-email.me> <dv8ajjtlof6g6srb9j1a8513ai464rqup1@4ax.com> <vh4pll$2q3pb$2@dont-email.me> <k7rbjj1564jnjb4qbbv0uuggjtjngj6fa4@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 14:18:20 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5679e70471f683189318c475c28c7608"; logging-data="2953002"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX182Oiau8tU8tmAJX2oBtacy7kwQS/YExEc=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:oTlnjHUxs3YPCyRYprdX40ywRxo= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <k7rbjj1564jnjb4qbbv0uuggjtjngj6fa4@4ax.com> Bytes: 10885 On 11/14/2024 7:38 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 07:15:49 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> On 11/13/2024 5:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:31:50 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 11/13/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:57:24 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/13/2024 3:23 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk. I guess that's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch. Perhaps one day we'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's this: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dangerious then the road? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I did not argue that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and >>>>>>>>>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Quit emulating Tom. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads." >>>>>>>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on >>>>>>>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!" >>>>>>>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes >>>>>>>>>>> are] more dangerous then the road?" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> spelling corrected and context clarified. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my >>>>>>>>>> positions are convincing anybody. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a >>>>>>>>> distortion? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here it is again.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads." >>>>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on >>>>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!" >>>>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No baffling involved. I simply quoted the incorrect, nonsense that you >>>>>>> wrote. >>>>>> >>>>>> and conflated "all are" with "can be" in the process. >>>>>> If you know you did it, you're a liar. >>>>>> If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, are you ignorant? or a liar? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No. >>>>>>>> 98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the >>>>>>>> earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a >>>>>>>> thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American >>>>>>>> Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per >>>>>>>> million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW >>>>>>>> first, WA second, LAB third: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41 >>>>>>>> Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59 >>>>>>>> Multiuse trail: 181, 91, 88. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than >>>>>>>> ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with >>>>>>>> reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small >>>>>>>> portion of our rides use such trails. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Didn't you admit that you used them? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in >>>>>>>> question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of >>>>>>>> leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over >>>>>>>> an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another undocumented anecdote..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the >>>>>>>> pavement stays quite clean. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those studies don't mention what types of cyclists were involved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given that a far higher percentage of cyclists on MUPs would likely be >>>>>>> inexperienced, elderly, and/or children, the results of studies are >>>>>>> worthless. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not nearly as worthless as you opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> C'est bon >>>>>>> Soloman >>>>> >>>>> Truth is, Junior, I never mentioned the words, "all are." I simply >>>>> quoted Krygowski's nonsense. >>>> >>>> The truth is, dumbass, you copy pasted Franks message from your "Frank >>>> File"* in support of Johns claim that Frank said "All", conflating "all >>>> are" with "can be" in the process. >>> >>> I did no such thing. I simply posted something related to it. >> >> Unlike you, we have reading comprehension beyond the 4th grade. Your >> intention was to conflate it 'all are' with 'can be'. >> >>> >>>> If you know you did it, you're a liar. >>>> If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant. >>>> >>>> So, are you ignorant? or a liar? >>> >>> Wow, Junior. What are you so angry about? >> >> Got it, you're both. >> >>> >>>> * You still don't get how revealing of your (lack of) character and ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========