Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a
 new basis ---SUCCINCT
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 09:23:54 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <vh54ma$2saj5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vfli1h$fj8s$1@dont-email.me> <vghb16$2ge1v$1@dont-email.me>
 <e51f21daadd358ef13801c918106c2fdc65a9f6b@i2pn2.org>
 <vghe3p$2gr3p$1@dont-email.me>
 <4cb98b3918d6745f53bb19582b59e786d4af5022@i2pn2.org>
 <vghgar$2h30o$1@dont-email.me>
 <e40629600e317dba47dd3d066d83899fa7b8a7ab@i2pn2.org>
 <vgiq1d$2nkqv$1@dont-email.me>
 <e84328012ce8d1e75b9b569f15f74fde315a0548@i2pn2.org>
 <vgjd2f$2qdc5$1@dont-email.me>
 <4654d9db2fa0906d7ab7a1c6c09139ab0b0110cd@i2pn2.org>
 <vgl7vl$37h38$4@dont-email.me> <vgnph1$3qcpl$1@dont-email.me>
 <vgns0o$3qq7s$1@dont-email.me> <vgsnod$upmp$1@dont-email.me>
 <vgt61q$11e5a$3@dont-email.me>
 <4eebe767dc236a7770566fc1593aae14a38cb085@i2pn2.org>
 <vgtbpd$12ji4$1@dont-email.me>
 <49bbc7f6ba667da66bc56c69db049774c066d084@i2pn2.org>
 <vgvmtb$1kbe2$1@dont-email.me> <vh20o5$25r1d$1@dont-email.me>
 <vh3bn2$2e37l$6@dont-email.me>
 <a00c3fbcaded06f27f00d04318140f5b9c890476@i2pn2.org>
 <vh4ti4$2qj8g$1@dont-email.me>
 <f6b4e2180879de96e61affc60ad38c74fe4abafc@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 16:23:55 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="03e50a320d6e65bd8f9ff48ac19fa030";
	logging-data="3025509"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/9fbjQVki69nQqx+ZziWjK"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:WSlIDc7tmA9x+K+Iqm/yFGFYT2c=
In-Reply-To: <f6b4e2180879de96e61affc60ad38c74fe4abafc@i2pn2.org>
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241114-2, 11/14/2024), Outbound message
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Bytes: 4173

On 11/14/2024 8:05 AM, joes wrote:
> Am Thu, 14 Nov 2024 07:22:12 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>> On 11/14/2024 2:56 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 13 Nov 2024 17:11:30 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-11-12 13:58:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 1:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Mon, 11 Nov 2024 10:35:57 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2024 10:25 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 11 Nov 2024 08:58:02 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2024 4:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-09 14:36:07 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The actual computation itself does involve HHH emulating itself
>>>>>>>>>> emulating DDD. To simply pretend that this does not occur seems
>>>>>>>>>> dishonest.
>>>>>>>>> Which is what you are doing: you pretend that DDD calls some
>>>>>>>>> other HHH that doesn’t abort.
>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH does not reach its "return" instruction final
>>>>>>>> halt state whether HHH aborts its emulation or not.
>>>>>>> When DDD calls a simulator that aborts, that simulator returns to
>>>>>>> DDD, which then halts.
>>>>>> It is not the same DDD as the DDD under test.
>>> What, then, is the DDD "under test"?
>> The machine code address that is passed to HHH on the stack is the input
>> to HHH thus the code under test. It specifies that HHH emulates itself
>> emulating DDD.
>> The DDD executed in main() is never pushed onto the stack of any HHH
>> thus <is not> the input DDD.
> 
> It starts at the same address, however. In what sense is the input not
> the DDD with that entry point?
> 

DDD emulated by HHH specifies that HHH emulates itself
emulating DDD. This requires HHH to abort this DDD to
prevent its own non-termination. No other instance of DDD
has this same result.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer