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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a
 new basis ---SUCCINCT
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 14:13:54 -0600
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On 11/14/2024 2:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/14/24 2:22 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/14/2024 1:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/14/24 2:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/14/2024 12:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/14/24 1:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/14/2024 12:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/14/24 1:04 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/14/2024 7:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/14/24 8:22 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/14/2024 2:56 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Am Wed, 13 Nov 2024 17:11:30 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-12 13:58:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 1:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 11 Nov 2024 10:35:57 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2024 10:25 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 11 Nov 2024 08:58:02 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2024 4:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-09 14:36:07 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 7:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The actual computation itself does involve HHH 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulating itself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulating DDD. To simply pretend that this does not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occur seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishonest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is what you are doing: you pretend that DDD calls 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH that doesn’t abort.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH does not reach its "return" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction final
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halt state whether HHH aborts its emulation or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When DDD calls a simulator that aborts, that simulator 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> returns to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD, which then halts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not the same DDD as the DDD under test.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What, then, is the DDD "under test"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The machine code address that is passed to HHH on the stack
>>>>>>>>>> is the input to HHH thus the code under test. It specifies
>>>>>>>>>> that HHH emulates itself emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And thus the contents of the memory are ALSO part of the 
>>>>>>>>> "input" and thus not changable without changing the input.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HHH is required to abort the emulation of any input that
>>>>>>>>>> would otherwise result in its own non-termination. DDD
>>>>>>>>>> is such an input.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, HHH does what it does, and, to be a halt decider must 
>>>>>>>>> determine if the program described halts or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An emulating termination analyzer / simulating halt decider
>>>>>>>> is required to prevent its own non-termination.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is also requied to CORRECTLY indicate what the program 
>>>>>>> described by its input will do when it is run.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just like int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
>>>>>> is required to return 5 for sum(2,3) HHH is required
>>>>>> to report on the behavior of HHH emulating itself
>>>>>> emulating DDD because that <is> what this input specifies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it is required to report on the behavior of DDD, not HHH's 
>>>>> partial emulation of it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> An emulating termination analyzer / simulating halt decider
>>>> is always correct to reject any input as non-halting that must
>>>> be aborted to prevent its own non-termination.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But it only "Must be aborted" if the unbounded emulaiton of that 
>>> exact input doesn't halt. 
>>
>> *You are just reverting to weasel words*
>>
>> When no HHH anywhere in the recursive emulation chain ever
>> needs to abort its input to prevent the non terminating
>> behavior of the outermost HHH then the input to HHH halts,
>> otherwise the input to HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting.
>>
> 
> No, YOU are trying to use weasel words PROVING you are just a LIAR that 
> has no idea what he is talking about.
> 

You are the one that cannot possibly coherently explain how I
am not perfectly correct. All you have is dogma an ad hominem.

HHH does compute the mapping OF ITS INPUT from its input
(not any other damn thing) to the behavior that this input
specifies.

*At this point I think that you know that you are a liar*
You certainly cannot show otherwise with coherent reasoning.

*Dogma the tool of mindless robots utterly bereft of a living soul*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer