Deutsch   English   Français   Italiano  
<vh61p3$32617$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article

Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of logic reformulates existing ideas on a new
 basis --- infallibly correct
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 17:40:19 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <vh61p3$32617$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vfli1h$fj8s$1@dont-email.me> <vgm79v$3d9gu$1@dont-email.me>
 <4b24331953934da921cb7547b6ee2058ac9e7254@i2pn2.org>
 <vgmb06$3e37h$1@dont-email.me>
 <2a5107f331836f388ad259bf310311a393c00602@i2pn2.org>
 <vgnsho$3qq7s$2@dont-email.me> <vgo157$n00$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgo4ia$3sfle$1@dont-email.me> <vgo7ri$30iv$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgo89i$3t6n8$1@dont-email.me> <vgoand$2464$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgobg7$3tnrn$2@dont-email.me> <vgodcf$kll$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgoed9$3ucjr$1@dont-email.me> <vgoi51$kll$2@news.muc.de>
 <vgojp1$3v611$1@dont-email.me> <vgol50$kll$3@news.muc.de>
 <vgom8r$3vue8$1@dont-email.me> <vgonlv$kll$4@news.muc.de>
 <vgoqv6$qht$2@dont-email.me> <vgq0dv$1trm$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgqifj$e0q0$2@dont-email.me> <vgqnfl$2ca0$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgqt2v$gdj5$2@dont-email.me> <vgr04c$dfn$1@news.muc.de>
 <vgr3vt$hf6i$2@dont-email.me> <vgr5fv$dfn$2@news.muc.de>
 <vh0nm0$1qvhf$1@dont-email.me> <vh2011$25mt3$1@dont-email.me>
 <vh3b4u$2e37l$4@dont-email.me> <vh4cvt$2nnn2$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2024 00:40:20 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1eac21b2b931973af1a7b8c06e3541b3";
	logging-data="3217447"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18w6lc2DxUBuC8hMdnLcsyB"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DzlUIOvvGwDOH5/PnYKg4gM16w0=
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241114-6, 11/14/2024), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
In-Reply-To: <vh4cvt$2nnn2$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 4106

On 11/14/2024 2:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-11-13 23:01:50 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 11/13/2024 4:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-11-12 23:17:20 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 11/10/2024 2:36 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2024 1:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [ .... ]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have addressed your point perfectly well.  Gödel's theorem is 
>>>>>>> correct,
>>>>>>> therefore you are wrong.  What part of that don't you understand?
>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU FAIL TO SHOW THE DETAILS OF HOW THIS DOES
>>>>>> NOT GET RID OF INCOMPLETENESS.
>>>>>
>>>>> The details are unimportant.  Gödel's theorem is correct.  Your ideas
>>>>> contradict that theorem.  Therefore your ideas are incorrect.  
>>>>> Again, the
>>>>> precise details are unimportant, and you wouldn't understand them
>>>>> anyway.  Your ideas are as coherent as 2 + 2 = 5.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Incomplete(L) ≡  ∃x ∈ Language(L) ((L ⊬ x) ∧ (L ⊬ ¬x))
>>>
>>> That's correct (although T is usually used instead of L).
>>> Per this definition the first order group theory and the first order
>>> Peano arithmetic are incomplete.
>>
>> Every language that can by any means express self-contradiction
>> incorrectly shows that its formal system is incomplete.
> 
> That "incorrectly shows" is non-sense. A language does not show,
> incorrectly or otherwise. A proof shows but not incorrectly. But
> for a proof you need a theory, i.e. more than just a language.
> 
> That a theory can't prove something is usually not provable in the
> theory itself but usually needs be proven in another theory, one
> that can be interpreted as a metatheory.
> 

*So in other words you just don't get it*
When you start with truth and only apply truth preserving
operations then you necessarily end up with truth.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer