Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating
 itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 17:56:26 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <vhr5na$1d1eq$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vhdd32$oq0l$1@dont-email.me> <vhf257$16a9p$1@dont-email.me>
 <vhg8qq$1duv3$1@dont-email.me> <vhho9r$1pkdu$1@dont-email.me>
 <vhjkn0$28t3s$2@dont-email.me> <vhkbia$1md6$1@dont-email.me>
 <vhlmbv$9l59$2@dont-email.me>
 <d575206d11b6ca9827a7245566e3d2a990cc0de2@i2pn2.org>
 <vhm7j5$c0mm$2@dont-email.me>
 <30f8781365f13eb6712a653321d2e49aa833f360@i2pn2.org>
 <vhnj19$mjea$1@dont-email.me>
 <edab5a897ccdda3deba5af968da56f5fc3718936@i2pn2.org>
 <vho85f$pvmk$1@dont-email.me>
 <4b836bd0c44eb0fb0d01ac1401bde229813cef20@i2pn2.org>
 <vhq5np$179o9$1@dont-email.me>
 <fb0b8f5d2d849d9934b95381e29bff0982684697@i2pn2.org>
 <vhqbua$18g1e$1@dont-email.me>
 <9d83447ce451abd731795728fd71bec5ec103e2a@i2pn2.org>
 <vhqig2$19n3n$1@dont-email.me>
 <584da8e6c06e8b9b12e8d5779a6e2840137af532@i2pn2.org>
 <vhqjdr$19n3n$2@dont-email.me>
 <f9e47c3a69fcbf8086ee78e3cac231a2b7a9dc7b@i2pn2.org>
 <vhr29f$1cf6i$1@dont-email.me>
 <8f1c5d657f9ebf9a7b5d3f09c34dd00acb5ec694@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 00:56:28 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="f5508b794280b8af0c3fe35e9b983404";
	logging-data="1476058"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19d4JG2HR5W8/lujTUKQ38a"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:SY1ZGyRDqUvd2asaRdQMxFQ918I=
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241122-4, 11/22/2024), Outbound message
In-Reply-To: <8f1c5d657f9ebf9a7b5d3f09c34dd00acb5ec694@i2pn2.org>
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Bytes: 6125

On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify that. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD dpes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>> All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure 
>>>>>>>>>>> function and
>>>>>>>>>>> the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static
>>>>>>>>>>> variable).
>>>>>>>>>> Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly 
>>>>>>>>>> allowed
>>>>>>>>>> to be any damn thing.
>>>>>>>>> TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root 
>>>>>>>>> variable.
>>>>>>>> The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
>>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own 
>>>>>>>> "return"
>>>>>>>> instruction.
>>>>>>> It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the same 
>>>>>>> HHH
>>>>>>> would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
>>>>>> FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
>>>>>> REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
>>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So?
>>>
>>> Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they 
>>> couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that the 
>>> actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a liar.
>>>
>>
>> You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
>> The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
>> reach its final halt state.
>>
> 
> The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a valid 
> question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.
> 

In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?




-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer