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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating
 itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:47:11 -0600
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On 11/22/2024 6:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify that. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as DDD dpes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> function and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static
>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable).
>>>>>>>>>>>> Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly 
>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be any damn thing.
>>>>>>>>>>> TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root 
>>>>>>>>>>> variable.
>>>>>>>>>> The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
>>>>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own 
>>>>>>>>>> "return"
>>>>>>>>>> instruction.
>>>>>>>>> It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the 
>>>>>>>>> same HHH
>>>>>>>>> would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
>>>>>>>> FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
>>>>>>>> REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
>>>>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So?
>>>>>
>>>>> Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they 
>>>>> couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that the 
>>>>> actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a liar.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
>>>> The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
>>>> reach its final halt state.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a 
>>> valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.
>>>
>>
>> In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
>> the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
>> HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that 
> relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the HHH that DDD 
> calls will do exactly what it does.
> 

Always lacks enough execution trace data to do
what the outermost HHH does.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer