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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating
 itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 22:11:41 -0600
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On 11/22/2024 9:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/22/24 10:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2024 7:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/24 7:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not correct. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping and there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. Therefore it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it gets the wrong answer for the halting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, as DDD dpes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> static
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressly allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be any damn thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Root variable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The static root variable has not one damn thing to do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own "return"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
>>>>>>>>>>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they 
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that 
>>>>>>>>>>> the actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are 
>>>>>>>>>>> just a liar.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
>>>>>>>>>> The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
>>>>>>>>>> reach its final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't 
>>>>>>>>> a valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just 
>>>>>>>>> DDD.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
>>>>>>>> the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
>>>>>>>> HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that 
>>>>>>> relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the HHH 
>>>>>>> that DDD calls will do exactly what it does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Always lacks enough execution trace data to do
>>>>>> what the outermost HHH does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Exfept that it DOES when you apply the definition of Semantic, 
>>>>> which means executed/emulated to completion.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How many times are you going to insist on the stupid nitwit
>>>> idea of emulating a non-terminating input to completion?
>>>> *DDD emulated by HHH HAS NO FREAKING COMPLETION NITWIT*
>>>>
>>>
>>> How many times will you just refuse to accept the DEFINITION?
>>>
>>> And, how many times will you just ignore that the below input can not 
>>> be emulated past the call HHH instructioon.
>>>
>>
>> That is what you have been denying.
> 
> No, You have been LYING by having your HHH go past it. 

*a copy of my quote above that you have repeatedly denied*
 >>>>>>>>>>>> Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
 >>>>>>>>>>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.

When I back you into a corner and make you look
ridiculous you try to get away with saying that
you agreed all along.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer