Deutsch   English   Français   Italiano  
<vi2dmn$2svqb$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article

Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: 1GW (sic) Battery Energy Storage Systems
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:55:35 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <vi2dmn$2svqb$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vhv3b0$27b8q$2@dont-email.me> <vhvl4l$2a8ot$1@dont-email.me>
 <vhvpgd$2b49h$1@dont-email.me> <8ar6kjtg3c4h4sj7k3u0ltgvcqn9mcmpln@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 18:55:36 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a188fdc5f3c24d5ad04536afa268761a";
	logging-data="3047243"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+hSF+zii1q2yARySdgdbvs5V0gEWdMBTl2aq+6uX5wmA=="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:X5NU2wzVj6VkX5RJevX+5v9/mEI=
In-Reply-To: <8ar6kjtg3c4h4sj7k3u0ltgvcqn9mcmpln@4ax.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
Bytes: 4581

On 24/11/2024 18:20, john larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 17:58:35 +0000, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 24/11/2024 16:44, TTman wrote:
>>> On 24/11/2024 11:40, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>> There is a startup company in the UK called NatPower (no relation to
>>>> the real National Power PLC aka NPower) claiming to have over 25 years
>>>> of experience in BESS. They are proposing 1GW (sic) BESS in all sorts
>>>> of brown and green field UK sites. They have no track record that I
>>>> can find. Does anyone here know of any real international project(s)
>>>> that they have actually done and more importantly *delivered*?
>>>> (their own PR or its uncritical repetition in the press doesn't count)
>>>>
>>>> Their website is very slick indeed but I suspect that beauty is only
>>>> skin deep. I am interesting in evidence of substance not PR fluff.
> 
> You've got to have energy before you can store it!

There is plenty of energy in the form of windfarms that are quite 
literally paid to *not* supply electricity when the wind blows any 
faster than average. National grid CBA to put enough capacity into the 
North South interconnects and so there is a huge surplus in the North 
and a deficit in the South around London and the South East.

Cube law dependence of output power on windspeed means it isn't worth 
putting in the cables in to move the highest possible peak power levels 
(and that is a fair engineering compromise). However, right now they are 
well short of a proper solution and a lot of Scottish and offshore wind 
energy producers are paid to feather their blades!

https://news.sky.com/story/britons-paying-hundreds-of-millions-to-turn-off-wind-turbines-as-network-cant-handle-the-power-they-make-on-the-windiest-days-12822156

Building big BESS storage up North won't help at all. It will just alter 
who they pay the "don't add your electricity to the grid" money to.

The stored energy needs to be already in the South before conditions get 
tight since the N-S interconnectors have essentially no spare capacity 
left at times of peak load. That was in part what caused the spectacular 
fail when an insignificant little power station was struck by lightning 
and triggered a cascade failure across large swathes of the country in 
2019. It didn't help that UK trains required an engineering reset by a 
specially trained operative with the right gear when power restored.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/10/uk-energy-watchdog-demands-answers-after-major-power-cut-england-wales

Problem is that land prices in the south are much higher...

> About all the UK has now is coal. Its NG reserves are mostly used up.

Last coal fired power station shut down last month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c98ye7ewwlwo

Dash for gas was how they met their CO2 reduction targets but now we are 
a bit screwed since gas prices are sky high and we pay top market rates 
for it (even though we still have active gas fields). They even did away 
with the bulk gas storage facility so that we were literally hand to 
mouth on the spot market for gas at the start of the Ukraine war.

There is some ageing nuclear still running and large scale biomass 
greenwashed wood burning facilities like Drax (sounds like a Bond villain).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68381160


-- 
Martin Brown