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From: Rich <rich@example.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:17:08 -0000 (UTC)
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Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> On 11/25/24 23:55, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 22:20:02 +0100, D wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 25 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/11/2024 09:55, D wrote:
>>>>> The problem with python is the quality of the ecosystem and the 2 to 3
>>>>> shift. I find the quality of python libraries lower than in perl. But
>>>>> I imagine that is due to there simply being more of them, and that it
>>>>> is a "live" language. Perhaps I found the quality better in perl,
>>>>> since the libraries that remain are old and mature.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with Python is it seems to be the new BASIC.
>>>> An entry point for PWCP People Who Cant Program.
>>>
>>> I see that as elitist. The more people who can learn to do simple
>>> programming, and simplify their lives, the better!
>> 
>> Python doesn't have a lock on the domain. I worked with a PhD chemist who
>> programmed in Fortran. He knew his chemistry but his Fortran looked like a
>> train wreck. The math was good and could be extracted into production
>> code. Many People Who Can't Program evolve into People Who Can Program or
>> have valuable expertise in a field where being able to express it, however
>> awkwardly, is valuable.
>> 
>> One of the job descriptions of a good manager is the ability to tell the
>> difference.
> 
> The fundamental characteristic of a good programmer is to be able to 
> deliver an application that is useful. Everything else is secondary.
> 
> IT department standards for good "production code" were often dogmatic 
> nonsense, labour intensive, often failures. Perhaps it has improved, but 

It has not.  For "enterprise" style software at least.

> in my day corporate IT management was dominated by snake-oil salesman 

Still present (ClownStrike anyone?).

> using a team of very poor drone programmers. Management liked drone 

Also still present.  I've described it as "they can assemble lego's 
if given the instruction book -- ask them to create a lego model 
without the instruction book and they are lost"

> programmers, because they were easier to manage, interchangeable. The 
> trouble was that getting an app to work took a higher level of 
> understanding and skill, rather than just joining the dots.

Yep, exactly.  If they can be given instructions that match their "lego 
brick set" they can snap something together.  Ask them to do anything 
that requires creativity or research and understanding, and you get 
back a turd that has had hours of polishing applied.