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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating
 itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2024 04:16:36 -0600
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On 11/27/2024 9:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/27/24 8:15 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     return;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates N
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instructions 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before tha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This applies to every DDD emulated by any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is too vague to be regareded true or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are specified in a way that makes your "every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I specify the infinite sets with each element 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 2023
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have also specifed that HHH is the program in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should I assume that you must be lying about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sentence says that there is only one HHH,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One element of an infinite set does not say there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are just showing that your logic is based on proven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the entire evaluation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Liar:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the 
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