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From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: 1GW (sic) Battery Energy Storage Systems
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2024 23:58:17 +0100
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On 11/30/24 22:44, john larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 17:40:08 +0000, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 30/11/2024 15:51, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 10:50:07 +0000, Martin Brown
>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/11/2024 03:15, john larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Having electricity used to be normal.
>>>>
>>>> UK power supply is generally way more stable than US.
>>>
>>> How many hours per year is your power out?
>>
>> Mine personally used to be entirely reliable after they replaced the
>> perished 1950's rubber insulated 3 vertical strands LT with modern
>> aluminium compound cable wiring with a steel hawser core. Prior to that
>> the lights would flicker in storms and burning bits of rubber would fall
>> to the ground under mostly bare copper wires as wet strips of old rubber
>> and canvas insulation touched them with much arcing and sparking.
>>
>> Apart from half a day a year for preventative maintenance where they cut
>> down overhanging tree branches it was reliable in the old days. Failure
>> is usually because someone has driven into a pole. Hazard of above
>> ground cabling (which is unusual in the UK apart from rural backwaters).
>>
>> However, since the latest shower cut back on preventative maintenance we
>> got hammered when storm Arwen hit taking down several (rotten) poles. We
>> were down for a couple of days but people around me were down for up to
>> two weeks (not enough poles and/or people and kit to put them in). Their
>> replace on fail policy can't cope with massive systemic failures. Same
>> with a couple of inches of snow and UK grinds to a standstill.
>>
>> In the cities mains supplies are underground and pretty much reliable
>> apart from that infamous incident that I referred to. However, in a cold
>> winter on a still and cloudy day the margins now are extremely tight at
>> a level where they have to pay some bigger industrial users not to use
>> power.
>>
>>> I'd estimate two total here, on avearge, but a pole on our street
>>> toppled down recently and that took 5 hours to replace
>>
>> We had that too in my village. Once a tree fell on it and the steel
>> hawser held it but permanently bent all the poles like bananas and the
>> other time the milk tanker on sheet ice totalled a pole on one of the
>> coldest days of the year (Sunday morning). Isolated random incident so
>> the previous power distribution company had us back on by nightfall.
>>
>> If that happened again today I expect we would get something like :
>> "Your call is really important to us ... our office hours are 9-5 please
>> call back on Monday with you emergency power outage <naff music>".
>>
>>> Large-region power failures are very rare here, between major
>>> earthquakes.
>>
>> They are in the UK too. We don't have earthquakes (well we do notice the
>> odd one every few years but they are tiny compared to real earthquakes).
> 
> In Louisiana, a good hurricane would take power out for a week in New
> Orleans, and a month or so out in the country. Volunteer linemen would
> fly in from all over the USA.
> 
> The 1989 quake here was a 6.9, enough to fracture brick and
> soft-foundation buildings, and a freeway, and a big part of the Bay
> Bridge. Bricks killed some people, but the Oakland freeway collapse
> was the nasty one. That bit of freeway had won architectural awards
> for the elegance of its delicate supports. We engineering students
> used to make fun of the architects.
> 
> I had some plaster walls crack, and a brick chimney collapse. Power
> was out for a day or so, so we had a neighborhood ice cream party. A
> mag 8 or so would be really bad, horizontal accels around 1G.
> 
> Further up, coast of Washington and Oregon, could be really bad.
> 
> There are still about a billion people in the world without
> electricity, which usually means no clean running water, and cooking
> over found wood or dung.
> 
> 
>>
>>>> The public consultation was yesterday. It really is 1GW injection power
>>>> and 4 hours so a 4GWhr battery farm (40x bigger than the largest system
>>>> currently in the UK and being built by a startup with no track record!).
>>>>
>>>> It will have ~900 container modules of batteries as close together as
>>>> they dare (half the US regulation spacing) and in double lines of 50.
>>>>
>>>> SO that makes me wonder how big is a 1GW transformer operating at 400kV?
>>>> And how much does one cost?
>>>
>>> Big utility transformers are made to order, and that can take years.
>>> The hazards there are obvious.
>>
>> That is what I thought. I'm trying to put bounds on the lead time. I'm
>> more impressed with their sales pitch than I expected to be. My back of
>> the envelope calculations suggest an air of unreality about their
>> claimed/intended GW injection capacity. Availability of supergrid line
>> is not in doubt two main corridors run close by. You can light up a
>> fluoro tube stood on end under them. Indeed an artist did just that!
>>
>> https://www.industrytap.com/florescent-bulbs-unplugged-and-shinning-tapping-electromagnetic-fields/1763
> 
> I wouldn't have suspected that, to have enough field near the ground
> from 3-phase lines way above.

I can attest that it works. Been there, done that.

Jeroen Belleman