Article <vikihd$3d968$1@dont-email.me>

Warning: mysqli::__construct(): (HY000/1203): User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections in D:\Inetpub\vhosts\howardknight.net\al.howardknight.net\includes\artfuncs.php on line 21
Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections
Warning: mysqli::query(): Couldn't fetch mysqli in D:\Inetpub\vhosts\howardknight.net\al.howardknight.net\index.php on line 66
Article <vikihd$3d968$1@dont-email.me>
Deutsch English Français Italiano
<vikihd$3d968$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article
Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Top three reasons for optimism about the ID scam
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2024 09:08:28 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 192
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <vikihd$3d968$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vii6c0$2llr6$1@dont-email.me> <viija7$2pm92$2@dont-email.me>
 <2a339317-e79f-4f14-81d6-b40ea12c6f7a@gmail.com>
 <viiovt$2qpjk$2@dont-email.me> <vijb1r$33fs4$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="23416"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Cancel-Lock: sha1:/Sd9HeDYA4/7ylF4AkNUTs+l3w8=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vijb1r$33fs4$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 14485

On 12/1/2024 9:54 PM, Kestrel Clayton wrote:
> On 01-Dec-24 17:46, RonO wrote:
>> On 12/1/2024 3:41 PM, erik simpson wrote:
>>> On 12/1/24 1:09 PM, Kestrel Clayton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01-Dec-24 12:28, RonO wrote:
>>>>> https://evolutionnews.org/2024/11/happy-thanksgiving-here-are- 
>>>>> michael- dentons-top-3-reasons-for-optimism-about-id-2/
>>>>>
>>>>> The ID perps have an article up on Denton's "top three reasons" to 
>>>>> be optimistic about the intelligent design creationist scam.  This 
>>>>> should likely be taken in context.  Denton has deistic notions that 
>>>>> have never been accepted by the other ID perps in their efforts to 
>>>>> maintain their "big tent" revival creationist scam.  Nearly all the 
>>>>> other ID perps and IDiotic creationist rubes want to believe in 
>>>>> personal god that is constantly involved in matters of our 
>>>>> existence.  Denton was one of the original ID perp fellows, but he 
>>>>> quit the ID scam when the other ID perps did not appreciate his 
>>>>> notions about god and evolution in his second book.  Denton 
>>>>> admitted that biological evolution was a fact of nature and his 
>>>>> deistic notions of what the designer could be did not go over well 
>>>>> with the other ID perps.  The other ID perps published their 
>>>>> discussion of Denton's book and Denton was not part of that 
>>>>> discussion. So Denton was no longer a fellow until he likely needed 
>>>>> the money and rejoined after the creationist defeat in Dover. 
>>>>> Denton rejoined knowing that the ID scam had just been a bait and 
>>>>> switch effort since he had left.  ID had only been used as bait to 
>>>>> push the ID perps obfuscation and denial stupidity.  Even after 
>>>>> rejoining Denton has not been treated very well.  I put up one 
>>>>> article where the interviewer was making fun of Denton's claims of 
>>>>> being an agnostic. The conclusion from that article was that Denton 
>>>>> had not been totally honest about the matter and that he wasn't any 
>>>>> type of agnostic that most people would relate to.  Really, the 
>>>>> interviewer wrote that Denton had a "sly twinkle" in his eye when 
>>>>> discussing the matter, and that he admitted that he may only be a 
>>>>> back sliding Christian.
>>>>>
>>>>> So even the other ID perps know that Denton is a liar, and that 
>>>>> they do not want to believe in his designer.
>>>>>
>>>>> #1.  "the "relentless" growth of the ID movement, in academia and 
>>>>> around the world."
>>>>>
>>>>> This seems to be a lie.  The ID network folded up and quit back in 
>>>>> 2009, and started COPE.  They have since reactivated their web 
>>>>> site, after nearly a decade of failure with COPE in selling the 
>>>>> obfuscation and denial switch scam, but aren't doing much else. 
>>>>> They still have not made any press releases since around 2007.  ARN 
>>>>> discussion board and uncommon descent were closed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just the fact that the bait and switch has continued to go down 
>>>>> 100% of the time that any rubes want to teach the junk should be 
>>>>> noticeable.  It took around 6 years after the bait and switch was 
>>>>> run on the Utah creationist rubes back in 2017 for the West 
>>>>> Virginia creationist rubes to try again in 2023, and it took 4 
>>>>> years after the bait and switch on both Louisiana and Texas in 2013 
>>>>> for the Utah rubes to make their effort in 2017.  There just are 
>>>>> not that many creationist rubes out there that do not understand 
>>>>> that there has never been any ID science worth teaching in the 
>>>>> public schools
>>>>>
>>>>> ID died on TO and uncommon descent after the ID perps put out their 
>>>>> Top Six in their order that they must have occurred in this 
>>>>> universe. Even the IDiots at Reason To Believe stopped being IDiots 
>>>>> after the Top Six came out.  You can go to the Reason to Believe 
>>>>> site, now, and you will be hard pressed to identify them as once 
>>>>> being IDiots.  They used to claim that they were IDiots, but that 
>>>>> they did not want to teach ID in the public schools like the ID 
>>>>> perps at the Discovery Institute. Senator Santorum gave up on the 
>>>>> ID scam after having the bait and switch run on him in Dover in his 
>>>>> home state.  These guys did not quit being creationists, they just 
>>>>> quit being IDiotic creationist rubes.
>>>>>
>>>>> #2.  "A second reason is the way any materialist explanation of the 
>>>>> origin of life keeps looking more and more implausible. James 
>>>>> Tour’s Harvard roundtable discussion with top OOL researcher Lee 
>>>>> Cronin was telling on that subject."
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't that the origin of life keeps looking more and more 
>>>>> implausible, but that it is about the last god-of-the-gaps type 
>>>>> arguments that are still considered to be viable by creationists. 
>>>>> Tour has claimed to understand that ID has been a scam, and that he 
>>>>> does not know how to do any ID science.  Tour's origin of life 
>>>>> claims are due to his understanding that ID is dead, but he can't 
>>>>> give up on the denial. The origin of life is only used as a god-of- 
>>>>> the-gaps denial argument. TO found out that Biblical creationists 
>>>>> do not want to believe in the designer responsible for the origin 
>>>>> of life on this planet after the Top Six was put out.  The designer 
>>>>> of the Top Six god-of-the-gaps denial arguments is not the creator 
>>>>> described in the Bible.  MarkE, like Tour, could not give up on the 
>>>>> origin of life gap denial, but came to realize that he did not want 
>>>>> to believe in the designer of the gap that he was trying to claim 
>>>>> could not be filled by a natural occurrence.  MarkE quit posting 
>>>>> when he could not reconcile the designer responsible for the origin 
>>>>> of life on this planet with the creator described in the Bible. It 
>>>>> is a lose lose proposition. Even if some designer is found to be 
>>>>> responsible for the origin of life on this planet it would not be 
>>>>> the Biblical designer, and the Bibilcal designer would end up to be 
>>>>> the false god.  There is no point in the gap denial when you will 
>>>>> have to admit that the creation story in the Bible is metaphorical, 
>>>>> and cannot be taken literally.
>>>>>
>>>>> #3.  "And finally, says Denton, there is a mounting realization 
>>>>> that the mind is irreducible to matter, upsetting the Darwinian 
>>>>> presumption that everything must reducible to matter."
>>>>>
>>>>> The Supreme court has already informed the creationist rubes that 
>>>>> just because science currently cannot explain something, that is 
>>>>> not support for their alternative.  It only means that their 
>>>>> alternative has not been ruled out.  The problem with the reasoning 
>>>>> behind #3 and why it doesn't mean that support for ID is expanding 
>>>>> when it really means that the number of such claims has been 
>>>>> constantly been getting smaller.  In the history of human kind 
>>>>> there has been a 100% failure rate for claims like these.  Every 
>>>>> single time we have finally figured out what is going on, some god 
>>>>> has been ruled out. What god makes the seasons change? What god 
>>>>> makes babies?  No god- did-it claim has ever been verified.  The 
>>>>> earth is not flat.  There is no firmament above the earth that some 
>>>>> god opens up to let the rain fall through.  The earth is not the 
>>>>> center of the universe with everything else spinning around us.  
>>>>> The 7 days of creation are not consistent with the order of the Top 
>>>>> Six, nor the age of the earth based on Genesis calculations.
>>>>>
>>>>> The ID perps presented their Top Six god-of-the-gaps denial 
>>>>> stupidity in such a way that it killed ID on TO.  Most of the 
>>>>> IDiots posting did not want to believe in the best evidence for 
>>>>> ID.  It turned out that they had only been wallowing in the denial 
>>>>> and never wanted to have the ID perps succeed in producing any 
>>>>> valid ID science.  Any valid science involving the Top Six would 
>>>>> just be more science for Biblical creationists to deny.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding number three: Many years ago, after ID's decisive failure, 
>>>> I did wonder if "non-materialist neuroscience" would be the next 
>>>> stalking horse for the religious right's attempt to replace 
>>>> education with catechism. Unfortunately for the would-be theocrats, 
>>>> the ID scam appears to have recruited too many true believers, who 
>>>> wouldn't give up even when it was obvious cdesign proponentsism was 
>>>> moribund. SURELY there would be jam tomorrow... or perhaps the day 
>>>> after that... or a week from next Tuesday, for sure!
>>>>
>>> Omphalism (last Thursdayism) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
>>>
>>
>> The last bit of creation science out of the ICR at the turn of the 
>> century before the ID scam took over TO was their RATE project.  In 
>> their first report of what they had found they concluded that the the 
>> theory of radiometric dating was sound, and that the age of the rocks 
>> should be able to be dated using those methods.  Their final 
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========