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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Memory ordering Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 11:13:17 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 39 Message-ID: <vipv2t$v57m$1@dont-email.me> References: <vfono1$14l9r$1@dont-email.me> <vh4530$2mar5$1@dont-email.me> <-rKdnTO4LdoWXKj6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@supernews.com> <vh5t5b$312cl$2@dont-email.me> <5yqdnU9eL_Y_GKv6nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2024Nov15.082512@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <vh7ak1$3cm56$1@dont-email.me> <20241115152459.00004c86@yahoo.com> <vh8bn7$3j6ql$1@dont-email.me> <vhb2dc$73fe$1@dont-email.me> <vhct2q$lk1b$2@dont-email.me> <2024Nov17.161752@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <vhh16e$1lp5h$1@dont-email.me> <2024Dec3.100144@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <vin2rp$3ofc$1@dont-email.me> <3aa9f0a3d3dde86193abb1c01e52d03a@www.novabbs.org> <jwvser449xz.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2024 17:13:18 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="37865afaa9225d3e4d6ffaa8bbe91511"; logging-data="1021174"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+KYVpvqROesGTAelfxsoU8" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:c/9f/49I1xq+maj0YkOY5zbtJq8= In-Reply-To: <jwvser449xz.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3080 On 12/3/24 18:37, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> If there are places >>> in the code it doesn't know this can't happen it won't optimize >>> across it, more or less. >> >> The problem is HOW to TELL the COMPILER that these memory references >> are "more special" than normal--when languages give few mechanisms. > > We could start with something like > > critical_region { > ... > } > > such that the compiler must refrain from any code motion within > those sections but is free to move things outside of those sections as if > execution was singlethreaded. > C/C++11 already defines what lock acquire/release semantics are. Roughly you can move stuff outside of a critical section into it but not vice versa. Java uses synchronized blocks to denote the critical section. C++ (the society for using RAII for everything) has scoped_lock if you want to use RAII for your critical section. It's not always obvious what the actual critical section is. I usually use it inside its own bracket section to make it more obvious. { std::scoped_lock m(mutex); // .. critical section } I'm not a big fan of c/c++ using acquire and release memory order directives on everything since apart from a few situations it's not intuitively obvious what they do in all cases. You can look a compiler assembler output but you have to be real careful generalizing from what you see. Joe Seigh