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From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 13:31:43 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 06/12/2024 09:09, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> On 12/5/24 4:36 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2024 09:31, D wrote:
>>>> There is great good and great evil in man. That's what makes him so 
>>>> fascinating and why fighting is such a necessary sport to give an 
>>>> outlet for all that aggression.
>>>
>>> Only man creates the categories of good and evil.
>>> Science does not include them
>>
>>  The Real World exists. What any of that MEANS,
>>  entirely our own inventions.
>>
>>  And those inventions tend to CHANGE over time.
>>
>>  Yea, kinda Nietzsche-esque ...
>>
> 
> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that 
> theme. ;) But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real 
> world as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true 
> or false.

Its not that the real world is not at some level most usefully regarded 
as a fact, it is that the more subtle question is whether what we 
*perceive* is in fact the real world *at all*. Or simply a construction 
in our own minds that maps what is *actually* there (maybe a 
probabilistic entangled quantum soup) into a recognisable world of 
objects and events linked in space time by natural law and causality.

Kant's objection to that view (what you see is what is there), which 
formed the basis for classical science, has been ignored until the early 
20th century, when it began to re-emerge in the philosophy of science. 
Karl Popper's view that science was not the discovery of natural laws of 
fact, but rather the invention of testable theories that *fitted the 
facts*, was a direct response to Einstein and the quantum boys.

In that context Kant's views are of course a construction in their own 
right. As unprovable as the laws of science. But, like science, "it 
works, bitches"

And philosophy and physics are really coming together at last, with very 
smart people trying to come up with structures that work, that look 
nothing whatsoever like the ordinary world of our perceptions.

Science is of course a mere branch of philosophy - 'Natural philosophy'.



-- 
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius