Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Rich <rich@example.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2024 03:02:20 -0000 (UTC)
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D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, Rich wrote:
> 
>>> Ohh...  but that is not "raw" in my book.  I do that myself on
>>> opensuse and I very seldom use yast.  So basically, what you are
>>> saying is that it works like...  "linux"?  ;)
>>
>> Yes.  Slackware is the nearest to just being Linux of all the 
>> distros (that install Linux, some of the FreeBSD's may be similar).  
>> If your preference is to edit /etc/resolv.conf to adjust your 
>> default name server, and edit /etc/init.d to change the default 
>> bootup, and so forth, it is more what you may be looking for than 
>> the others (all of which add varing levels a "you are an idiot, here 
>> let me hold your hand via this custom GUI" system on top).
> 
> Sounds great! =)
> 
>>> Maybe I should add slackware back to the list then, since what you 
>>> are saying just sound exactly like how I like to manage my 
>>> machines!  =D
>>
>> Tis free to download, and you can install it into a VM if you wish 
>> to 'test out' at first (and don't have a spare machine to devote to 
>> 'testout').
>>
>> It also is one of the few left that is systemd free.  And instead of 
>> the SYSV infinite field of symlinks for init, Slackware uses BSD 
>> style rc.d scripts (actual scripts you can edit).  The provenance of 
>> SYSV sysmlink fields means it also will support those if you want, 
>> but the default is actual scripts that execute other scripts.
> 
> Oh my...  it just keeps getting better and better!!  How come it 
> hasn't gotten any attention at all??

Likely because 99% of the "computer using public" is *lost* without the 
"handholding GUI".

> I've heard about devuan and antix, but how come none of those guys went to
> slckware to escape their systemd problems?

I can't answer that one.  You'd have to ask them.  I don't dabble in 
either.  First installed Slackware back when it was the "new and 
improved SLS" (Soft Landing Systems).  Have stuck with it since.

>>> I'm happy I started as early with linux as I did.  I teach the 
>>> config file way to my students, and am furious when I learned that 
>>> the teacher who got the job after me, taught the students how to 
>>> manage linux with _only_ the GUI tools.  Revolting!  Also causing 
>>> them to miss out a lot about how the system actually works, and how 
>>> it was design to work.  =(
>>
>> And that teacher is turning out students, much like the MSCE 
>> students, who only "know Ubuntu" (assuming they used Ubuntu) and the 
>> "Ubuntu way" and if tossed into a "non Ubuntu" system, become lost, 
>> because they really did not learn how things worked behind the 
>> "lipstick on a pig GUI".
> 
> Yep, this is the sad truth.  I, together with 2 colleagues, give a 
> cloud course that's after the linux course, and we do hard core 
> terminal work in that course.  We've discovered that since they have 
> a monkey as the linux teacher, we have to start from scratch in that 
> course, thus losing valuable time.  =(

Yup.  If they learn the handholding GUI, all they know is that exact 
handholding GUI.  Flip them to a different GUI, or if V3 of that GUI 
changes, and they are lost again.

> I will pray hard, that I manage to get back the linux course next 
> autumn.  That way I can prepare them properly and teach them what the 
> terminal, files, scripting, and text files is all about!  =)

That will reduce the lost time in the 'cloud' course just to bring them 
up to speed to begin to operate.