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From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2024 12:37:42 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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On 08/12/2024 22:31, rbowman wrote:
> I can't reliably
> remember the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, and the Twelve
> Links of Dependent Origination let alone the subgroupings like the Five
> Skahndas.
> 
I think you have never been exposed to the Indian art of story telling. 
Read Salman Rushdies 'Haroun and the Sea of Stories'...

The 'shah of blah'.  King of Bullshit. I always thought that there was a 
wonderful amount of utter crap in those texts, and they were originally 
spoken with a twinkle in the eye...


> That's probably why I like Nietzsche; sprawling, self-contradictory, spur
> of the moment aphorisms with no attempt to build a system. That's better
> than Schopenhauer's 'On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient
> Reason' which he claims is the key to understanding The World as Will.


That's the only bit of Schopenhauer I didn't like. Otherwise he is a 
very clear exponent of Transcendental Idealism.

He arrived at an Eastern view of the world from first principles Quite a 
feat.

I would say its more the 'threefold principle of necessary dimension', 
myself.

That an observable world will always contain the paradox of self 
reference unless it is viewed from a dimension orthogonal to the reality 
of perception. What used to be called 'the detached observer' or prior 
to that 'the soul'. Pure awareness, as it were without interference..

I.e  it is necessary to have not only that which is observed, and what 
the observation is - the abstraction of our model of the world -  but 
some agency that *does the abstraction*, that is in neither the observed 
entity nor the model it produces.

Or to put it another way, if we try to understand experience in terms of 
two terms we run into paradox. Douglas Hofstadter's writings are an 
exploration of this problem of recursion.

Only if you introduce a third element that is orthogonal to the two 
others, do you get a model without paradox.

The world as 'will and representation' is Schopenhauer's view that the 
world is something with a structure and direction and a sort  of force - 
'Will' and then the pictures we draw in our heads to enable us to get to 
grips with it. Representation.

What he left out was 'who  or what is drawing the picture?'

My conclusion was that you cant do it without it becoming an equation of 
hree terms

E=f(C,R)

Experience is a function of Consciousness, and Reality - whatever that 
may be.

Realism holds that E =f(R) and there is no independent C
Idealism says that E  =f(C) and there is no independent R

In the end you can believe what you like, and you will select the one 
that works for you.
And your experiences.

-- 
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing 
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"